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DON'T Get me wrong i like the energy of this team BUT....

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  • #46
    RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    We pasted that they would "help Jose out", when Lowry came here, it was already "point guard for the future" or "has the keys to the car". He's been the number 1 point guard since day 1 he arrived. I honestly didn't even think it was close in terms of talent in comparing Calderon to Lowry.
    Ok...Barbosa wasn't a PG. Very fine line....little nit picky....but ok i'll accept that.
    Lowry is the biggest "name" we have had at PG since Mighty Mouse. Kyle Lowry has not been the number one point guard since day 1. When he came aboard he said he'll just wanted to help the team. Everyone assumed he was going to be the starter. i know i did. But he was contributing to our run that started to turn the season around... not running it. He played most of the fourth qtr, he did alot of scoring.....but he was NOT our #1 point guard. Jose has 30 starts & Lowry has 18. They had to work him back in slow, but Lowry can't take credit that he put us in a position to save this season. I have accepted Jose is gone, but you are hurting Lowry's case, suggesting he has been our #1 PG "since he got here."

    As far as comparing "talent".... I am not even gonna go there. Lowry hasn't been the same since his injury. Guess it depends on what you want from your PG. Obvious we have different opinions. Just looking at who was in the STARTING lineup....when we won? You can't be honest and say Lowry. I'll give him a chance......let him work things out. I will not change my stance that we should be searching for a starting PG. I will not change stance that we need a "pass first" "classic" PG to be a better team.

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    • #47
      Mal wrote: View Post

      I don't think Jose will come back. He was treated too poorly and could probably start for a couple more years elsewhere. And we need to address this situation ASAP anyways.

      If our starting PG isn't gonna create our backup better be able to. I think most are in agreement about this. Makes sense to have a stronger "team runner" come off the bench with a 2nd unit anyway giving the bench a little bit of a crutch, making them better, as opposed to worse which to me is what JL3 is doing.
      That is what I am talking about
      (Singing) You are not alone.......I AM HERE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      • #48
        They still have a few games before the all-star break. I'd give them till that to see how these guys are gonna workout. 2 games with this current line up is too early to judge.

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        • #49
          The only old road worth traveling again is picking up Ed Davis if he doesnt resign in Memphis and perhaps VC off the Toronto Bench would be pretty awesome.

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          • #50
            There are 450 NBA players in the world. Surely, there are better options than two recycled Raptor castoffs

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            • #51
              Soft Euro wrote: View Post
              Jose is never ever coming back (I think)
              jose may end up liking Detroit although i cant see why the city is a dump.. but he may enjoy playing on that team. Dumars said he would like to re sign jose in the summer too & that hes long coveted jose

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              • #52
                qb5PHILA@hotmail.com wrote: View Post
                But if you could get jose back this offseason at 5-6 mill a year and trade Kyle for something of value, would you not do it?
                There's no way I do that. We have had many years of Jose and there has been little success along the way. I don't blame Jose, he has had great numbers. But the team was not getting it done with him leading the offense. The number of playoff appearances we have had during The Jose Years highlights my point. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different result. Call me crazy but Im ready for change.

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                • #53
                  ST1R wrote: View Post
                  There's no way I do that. We have had many years of Jose and there has been little success along the way. I don't blame Jose, he has had great numbers. But the team was not getting it done with him leading the offense. The number of playoff appearances we have had during The Jose Years highlights my point. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different result. Call me crazy but Im ready for change.
                  the problem wasnt jose.. it was the talent in place.. since jose has joined the league the best player hes played with was Bosh...& that team wasnt that good not because of jose but because our franchise guy wasnt a franchise guy.. since then hes been playing with everything from d-leaguers to rookies to guys that just plain suck... now im not saying we should resign him but to lay the blame for our track record on jose is just not fair to him... is jose an elite PG? No but jose is an above average PG who runs elite level half court offence & pick n roll..

                  also Jose's D hasnt always been great over the years but Lowry's D hasnt been that great aswell & hes been labeled as a guy in the past who is a very good defender..
                  Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Mon Feb 4th, 2013, 03:58 PM.

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                  • #54
                    The only thing I will say, is how hard it was for the OLD raptors to find a pass first point guard. We went seasons and seasons without one, until we found Jose. Alvin Williams would look like a selfish dick next to Jose.


                    ...I think this is more a credit to Jose's skill set, then it is a knock on Lowry, compared to other guards running teams, Lowry does not look so bad, compared to Jose he looks assist deficient. We were a little spoiled by Jose and many fans took his skill set for granted. Pass first guards are hard to find and rarely ever traded.

                    EDIT: Ball movement is a very common problem in the league, that many teams are competing to address.
                    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Mon Feb 4th, 2013, 04:22 PM.

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                    • #55
                      RepRaptorsintheUSA wrote: View Post
                      Can anyone explain to me how Kyle Lowry is different from our failed "score first point guard" experiments?
                      Totally understand if you have to turn away before you get to the end of this list.

                      Chauncey Billups
                      Roger Mason
                      Derrick Martin
                      Mike James
                      Jerrett Jack
                      T.J. FORD
                      Rafer Alston
                      Jerryd Bayless
                      Leandro Barbosa

                      Why is Kyle Lowry (post injury) all of a sudden going to make it all work?
                      Lowry's taken 12.3 shots per 36 minute compared to Jose's 11.3 shot per 36. That's not a lot of shots for a "score first point guard." I think Lowry's game is more balanced that you might think. Jrue Holiday takes 17.0 shots per 36. He's a true "score first point guard" and damn good one too.

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                      • #56
                        Lowry is actually extremely efficient. He doesn't chuck too much if you watch his game. He's going to get a lot of open looks from downtown with DeMar and Rudy being the defensive focus for the opposing team. He can also push the tempo and create fast break opportunities

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                        • #57
                          qb5PHILA@hotmail.com wrote: View Post
                          I agree with giving Lowry a chance, but I don't think it will turn out and if it doesn't Jose should be brought back immediately after the season and kyle traded.
                          Two months from now Jose is going to realize that there is life after Toronto. He's going to look for the best situation for himself in the off-season and it ain't going to be Toronto.

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                          • #58
                            BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
                            The only thing I will say, is how hard it was for the OLD raptors to find a pass first point guard. We went seasons and seasons without one, until we found Jose. Alvin Williams would look like a selfish dick next to Jose.


                            ...I think this is more a credit to Jose's skill set, then it is a knock on Lowry, compared to other guards running teams, Lowry does not look so bad, compared to Jose he looks assist deficient. We were a little spoiled by Jose and many fans took his skill set for granted. Pass first guards are hard to find and rarely ever traded.

                            EDIT: Ball movement is a very common problem in the league, that many teams are competing to address.
                            You don't need a great 'pass first' pg to have great ball movement.... that is coaching and commitment from the players to buy in.

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                            • #59
                              NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                              Lowry is actually extremely efficient. He doesn't chuck too much if you watch his game. He's going to get a lot of open looks from downtown with DeMar and Rudy being the defensive focus for the opposing team. He can also push the tempo and create fast break opportunities
                              I agree, Lowry's numbers have been pretty good considering the season the team has had. I think people have formulated this negative opinion of Lowry. It's going to be hard to shake.

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                              • #60
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                You don't need a great 'pass first' pg to have great ball movement.... that is coaching and commitment from the players to buy in.
                                Good point. Especially on this revamped Raptors team, where Gay & DeRozan will both initiate offense, I'm going to be more concerned with total team assists (assists VS baskets made) than I will be about Lowry's assists. It was different when Calderon was the primary initiator, but now it's all about team play.

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