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The road for any off-season free agent signing runs through Gasol

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  • #16
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    And let's not forget that (when healthy) Gasol is still an-star calibre player. Aside from the financial benefits, he'd be an upgrade on the court too.
    Exactly.

    The injury is a major concern but this is the same injury that AA had earlier in the season. We don't know how severe Gasol's is at this time though but AA was partially torn.

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    • #17
      SCOLA....YES OF COURSE....why the hell didn't I think of this we need him!
      For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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      • #18
        SHIT! can't get him until the off season
        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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        • #19
          octothorp wrote: View Post
          Matt, I like your plan here. However, I'm not sure it's necessary. In regards to sign-and-trades, my understanding from reading Coon's FAQ is that anyone can use sign-and-trades as long as doing so doesn't take them above the apron. Here's what he says:



          I don't see anything in his FAQ about sign-and-trades being off-limits to teams above the tax threshold. I know that other writers have said that, but I suspect that these tend to be writers who haven't delved into the CBA to the same depth that Coon has. (Or it's very possible that there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.)

          http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89

          We're currently at $72 million in committed salary for next year. If the tax threshold is at $70 million, and the apron is at $74 million, that gives us about 2$ million more than Bargnani's 11 million next season to work with. And straight up, we can take back a salary up to 125% + $100,000 of Bargnani's salary this year. All of that means, to me, that we could do a sign-and-trade for up to about 12.6 million straight up for Bargnani, or more if other players were on their way out. If we could include Gray in the trade, we should be able to take back a contract for close to $15 million.

          The downside is that teams that execute a sign-and-trade cannot go above the apron for the remainder of the year. What I'm not clear on is the timing of all that... can we execute a sign-and-trade to bring in a guy like Millsap right now, bringing us right up to the apron, and then use our mini-MLE and minimum contracts to exceed the apron after July 1? Or does the extension count as a 2013-14 signing?
          Thanks for that.

          Gasol may not be necessary as I laid out but any chance of the Raps making a sign and trade would require getting an expiring contract for Bargnani or amnestying Bargnani. Ideally getting an expiring contract for Bargnani would be ideal and amnestying Kleiza.

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          • #20
            might be easier to buyout Kleiza rather than amnesty
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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            • #21
              side note...it occurred to me that Denver would be a good spot for Bargs to land.
              For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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              • #22
                I dont think Minnisota even wants him anymore guy goes down easier than water. So whats plan B?

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                • #23
                  thead wrote: View Post
                  might be easier to buyout Kleiza rather than amnesty
                  Anything you buy him out for is going to count against the cap.... Now if he is willing to go for $100, a large pep and cheese from Pizza Pizza, and a case of Molson Canadian then sure.

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                  • #24
                    I'm really not sure why Gasol is being discussed as 'the only way'. Lets use Millsap as an example.

                    The offseason rolls around and Toronto has $72,951,259 tied-up in 12 players (assuming Haddadi is cut and all other options picked-up). Toronto kicks the tires on Millsap on July 1st, and he would be happy to sign for say $15M per season (once the moratorium period has ended). The Jazz don't plan on matching and would be willing to faciliate a S&T, to get something in return for Millsap.

                    Option A: What is preventing the Raptors from using the amnesty on Bargnani ($11.75M), then executing a S&T deal, as long as enough salary was sent back to Utah to keep the Raptors under the apron? In this case, it would only require a couple million dollars (ie: Gray), in addition to say a draft pick (and the big TPE that would be generated for Utah)?

                    Option B: Couldn't the Raptors amnesty Kleiza ($4.5M) and then trade DeRozan ($9.5M) back to Utah? They'd be under the current $74M apron in that scenario.


                    Or am I missing something??? I'm just trying to wrap my head around other options that could theoretically work, allowing the Raptors to target big name free agents, without needing to go the 'trade for Gasol at the deadline' route. Not that I'm necessarily opposed to going that route, mind you (if it's say, Bargnani & Kleiza & a couple 2nd round picks for Gasol).


                    EDIT: nevermind 'Option A', I realized I was thinking about the tax cap, not the salary cap. The raps would essentially need to amnesty Bargnani/Kleiza AND trade enough salary back to work within the ((money out * 1.25)+$100,000) rule.
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6th, 2013, 04:03 PM.

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                    • #25
                      I'm starting to think DeRozan isn't going anywhere
                      For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                      • #26
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        I'm really not sure why Gasol is being discussed as 'the only way'. Lets use Millsap as an example.

                        The offseason rolls around and Toronto has $72,951,259 tied-up in 12 players (assuming Haddadi is cut and all other options picked-up). Toronto kicks the tires on Millsap on July 1st, and he would be happy to sign for say $15M per season (once the moratorium period has ended). The Jazz don't plan on matching and would be willing faciliate a S&T, to get something in return for Millsap.

                        What is preventing the Raptors from using the amnesty on Bargnani ($11.75M), then executing a S&T deal, as long as enough salary was sent back to Utah to keep the Raptors under the apron? In this case, it would only require a couple million dollars (ie: Gray)?

                        Or, as another option, couldn't the Raptors amnesty Kleiza ($4.5M) and then trade DeRozan ($9.5M) back to Utah? They'd be under the current $74M apron in that scenario.


                        Or am I missing something??? I'm just trying to wrap my head around other options that could theoretically work, allowing the Raptors to target big name free agents, without needing to go the 'trade for Gasol at the deadline' route.
                        No I was missing the $74M apron.

                        I thought no luxury tax team could do sign and trade but you are allowed to go up to $74M.

                        My original assumption was also that no team would give up an expiring contract for Bargnan and that not picking up Haddadi and amnestying Kleiza would not create enough cap space to do a sign and trade for enough dollars to entice Millsap or Smith.

                        So this new information shows that a TPE exception is not the only way to land these guys. But a large TPE would still be awesome to have at this time entering the super luxury tax era.

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                        • #27
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          No I was missing the $74M apron.

                          I thought no luxury tax team could do sign and trade but you are allowed to go up to $74M.

                          My original assumption was also that no team would give up an expiring contract for Bargnan and that not picking up Haddadi and amnestying Kleiza would not create enough cap space to do a sign and trade for enough dollars to entice Millsap or Smith.

                          So this new information shows that a TPE exception is not the only way to land these guys. But a large TPE would still be awesome to have at this time entering the super luxury tax era.
                          So one way to address all the team's needs, including landing Millsap (only using him because he seems to be the popular target):

                          Starting offseason salary for 2013-04, barring additional moves: $74,348,759 (13 players)

                          1. Trade Bargnani at deadline for little/no contracts that extend beyond this year (essentially saving $10.75M next season), or possibly to pickup a backup PG (would mean less savings next year)
                          2. Amnesty Kleiza or hope he doesn't re-up (saving $4.6M next season)
                          3. Decline option on Haddadi (saving $1,397,500 next season)

                          Updated total salary for 2013-14: $57,601,259 (10 players), or slightly more if backup PG is acquired in Bargnani trade

                          4. S&T for any player, as long as it works within the standard trade rule: maximum money coming in = [(money going out * 1.25)+$100,000]

                          Which means, it's likely that DeRozan would still need to be traded for whichever big name player we're trying to sign (ie: Millsap). So, the net impact would be DeRozan & Bargnani & Kleiza & Haddadi for Millsap (and possibly a backup PG), in this example.

                          If Millsap signed a $15M contract (just as an example), the team would then have 10 players under contract for a total of $63,101,259 (plus possibly a backup PG).
                          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 6th, 2013, 04:16 PM.

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                          • #28
                            It's better to amnesty Andrea, thereby no salary comes back in a trade. It's simple, there goes 10.75 million of the cap money. With a little creativity, BC or the GM in waiting can find a way to dump some salary and stay under the tax line.

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                            • #29
                              If they want to win, they're going to (have to) go into lux tax, and that's been affirmed by Colangelo in recent interviews as A-OK by MLSE for the right player. The "right player", IMO, is not Pau Gasol (and I don't think he's BC's or MLSE's "right player" either).

                              I also don't think Millsap is that player. He's not some all-universe PF that teams can't live without. In fact, I don't think a "starting PF" is even that player that they need to blow the farm to acquire. Amir Johnson is doing quite alright in that role, he's only 25 (and a 7-year vet), and he's under contract at a great price for his efficient production. They're in much more dire need of a solid backup 1.

                              This season, Toronto doesn't have to make any more changes at all (that is, their playoff future is not staked on getting another elite player). And making no changes will not affect future flexibility. The only moves that I would guess are available this season would, in fact, harm future flexibility. If you trade Bargnani for something along the lines of what's been discussed above, you're not helping yourself now or in the summer or next season. Better by far to wait and see what happens with AB -- accepting that this team is not currently built for a playoff run -- and then figure out your next move in the spring.

                              I realize that's anathema to those who think Bargs is a cancer that needs to be excised before this team will ever move forward. But there's just no need to sacrifice other assets just to remove AB from the equation.
                              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                              • #30
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                So one way to address all the team's needs, including landing Millsap (only using him because he seems to be the popular target):

                                Starting offseason salary for 2013-04, barring additional moves: $74,348,759 (13 players)

                                1. Trade Bargnani at deadline for little/no contracts that extend beyond this year (essentially saving $10.75M next season), or possibly to pickup a backup PG (would mean less savings next year)
                                2. Amnesty Kleiza or hope he doesn't re-up (saving $4.6M next season)
                                3. Decline option on Haddadi (saving $1,397,500 next season)

                                Updated total salary for 2013-14: $57,601,259 (10 players), or slightly more if backup PG is acquired in Bargnani trade

                                4. S&T for any player, as long as it works within the standard trade rule: maximum money coming in = [(money going out * 1.25)+$100,000]

                                Which means, it's likely that DeRozan would still need to be traded for whichever big name player we're trying to sign (ie: Millsap). So, the net impact would be DeRozan & Bargnani & Kleiza & Haddadi for Millsap (and possibly a backup PG), in this example.

                                If Millsap signed a $15M contract (just as an example), the team would then have 10 players under contract for a total of $63,101,259 (plus possibly a backup PG).
                                You have Trading DeRozanitus. You would not have to include DeRozan in the scenario you laid out above.

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