Everything Greivis Vasquez

[ceez]

i don't think Morey is as smart as everyone says he is but he's definitely not dumb enough to deal Jones for Vasquez

[Primer]

Most of those guys are worse as either playmakers or scorers/shooters. I agree they could take one of those options (as i point out in an above post with Mo Williams), but I don't think they'd be thrilled with that scenario either.

Vasquez can hit open 3's, but the rest of his offense is dogshit (that stupid fucking floater), hence his .408 FG%. His TS% is also bad at .514. I think Vasquez is pretty comparable to everyone listed. Maybe a bit better, maybe a bit worse. None of them are worth Terrence Jones.

[Primer]

Honestly I think Houston probably ends up doing little. Maybe bring back their own guys and settle for a bench PG like Mo Williams with a small free agent deal. But they're definitely a team I'd be calling if I was Masai.

Also something about the "they can get something way better for Jones" line of thinking. What exactly? He has little value on his own, being on a small rookie deal. And he's not enough to get a legit all-star/near all-star talent, so they'd need to give up way more to go after such guys.

Terrence Jones has a ton of value, and the rookie deal makes him even more valuable. You get a starting caliber PF for only $2M for a year, then have him as a RFA. He's a legit stretch 4 (.351 3pt%), has true PF size, is a pretty good defender, is very efficient on offense. I could see them keeping him and letting Smith walk, at least that seems like the smart thing to do.

Any team in the market for a starting PF would love to trade for Jones. They can use Papanik as filler to get the salaries up if need be.

[white men can't jump]

A few options in FA that I'd peg around similar value to Vasquez.

CJ Watson
Stuckey
Joseph
Cole
Bynum
Lin
Barea
Mo Williams
Aaron Brooks
Dellavedova

A possible trade target could be Shelvin Mack from Atlanta. Mack has been pushed back to 3rd string, but he's a very solid backup PG, and would cost less in a trade (and $ wise) than Vasquez.

I don't see Houston being so out of options that giving up Jones for Vasquez makes sense to them.

Most of those guys are worse as either playmakers or scorers/shooters. I agree they could take one of those options (as i point out in an above post with Mo Williams), but I don't think they'd be thrilled with that scenario either.

[Primer]

That's true about Asik, but that was also at a different stage in their building process. They're just coming off a conf. Finals appearance. So part of it would be hoping they feel pressure to make a move to try and help them gain any ground at all. Convincing them Vasquez is the right move is a different story. But again, doesn't look like there are a ton of options for them in the backcourt.

A few options in FA that I'd peg around similar value to Vasquez.

CJ Watson
Stuckey
Joseph
Cole
Bynum
Lin
Barea
Mo Williams
Aaron Brooks
Dellavedova

A possible trade target could be Shelvin Mack from Atlanta. Mack has been pushed back to 3rd string, but he's a very solid backup PG, and would cost less in a trade (and $ wise) than Vasquez.

I don't see Houston being so out of options that giving up Jones for Vasquez makes sense to them.

[white men can't jump]

Honestly I think Houston probably ends up doing little. Maybe bring back their own guys and settle for a bench PG like Mo Williams with a small free agent deal. But they're definitely a team I'd be calling if I was Masai.

Also something about the "they can get something way better for Jones" line of thinking. What exactly? He has little value on his own, being on a small rookie deal. And he's not enough to get a legit all-star/near all-star talent, so they'd need to give up way more to go after such guys.

[white men can't jump]

I'm not doubting one of those 5 bigs aren't in Houston next year, I'm highly highly doubting Vasquez can net any of them.

And Llull is a completely different scenario. First off, although him and Vasquez play similar roles, they're much different players. Llull isn't a pylon on defense and he's actually pretty fast. He might not be as good a shooter as Vasquez, but taking defense into consideration he is a more complete player.

Second of all, Houston gives up exactly zero assets by trying to bring him over. That's right, 0. Why in the world would they give up Capela or D-Mo or Jones for Vasquez when they can just sign Llull and trade one of those guys for a different piece?

Not sure why you even mentioned Llull.

First off, gauging how one transfers skills over to the NBA is always difficult. Papanikolaou was a very good defender in Europe. Last season he struggled. And that's not even getting to offence.

Second, not giving up an asset doesn't mean not giving up anything. Signing Llull would cut into their cap space, which isn't very much to begin with. So they may give up an asset for Vasquez, but they don't compromise cap flexibility at all. From their own guys alone, Smith, Beverley and possibly Brewer (think he has a player option) could be free agents. And if Brewer opts out, they don't have bird rights for either him or Smith.

I mentioned Llull because they're seemingly willing to commit 3 years at similar money to what Vasquez is making. Oh, and because he probably represents one of their legit options to address the same issue. But he's unlikely to come over, what with a 4.5M buyout and a contract that still has years left on it in Spain. So it was showing that they may not have many options looking to add the kind of guard they want.

[white men can't jump]

If Houston decides they want to trade T Jones, they can get a much better return than Vasquez. Houston didn't take shit offers for Asik and just let him rot on the bench until they got something they liked, so I highly doubt they give up Jones for a year of Vasquez?

That's true about Asik, but that was also at a different stage in their building process (*and a different situation with Asik wanting out). They're just coming off a conf. Finals appearance. So part of it would be hoping they feel pressure to make a move to try and help them gain any ground at all. Convincing them Vasquez is the right move is a different story. But again, doesn't look like there are a ton of options for them in the backcourt.

[Primer]

If Houston decides they want to trade T Jones, they can get a much better return than Vasquez. Houston didn't take shit offers for Asik and just let him rot on the bench until they got something they liked, so I highly doubt they give up Jones for a year of Vasquez?

[Bonus Jonas]

I'm not doubting one of those 5 bigs aren't in Houston next year, I'm highly highly doubting Vasquez can net any of them.

And Llull is a completely different scenario. First off, although him and Vasquez play similar roles, they're much different players. Llull isn't a pylon on defense and he's actually pretty fast. He might not be as good a shooter as Vasquez, but taking defense into consideration he is a more complete player.

Second of all, Houston gives up exactly zero assets by trying to bring him over. That's right, 0. Why in the world would they give up Capela or D-Mo or Jones for Vasquez when they can just sign Llull and trade one of those guys for a different piece?

Not sure why you even mentioned Llull.

[white men can't jump]

Look, it's really pretty simple (maybe too simple) logic. Houston badly needs backcourt help, and if they keep Beverley as the starter, especially of the offensive variety. They won't have a ton of cap space this summer (which is why bringing back Beverley might be the best option for a starter). And they don't have a lot of moveable pieces for trades. A young big is pretty much their only attractive trade asset, not counting draft picks.

[white men can't jump]

0 chance Vasquez nets you Jones.

And what makes the ones supporting this trade think Jones is the odd one out in Houston? Smith's not even signed, Jones is better than D-Mo, and Capela had like 20? good games.

Jones is better than D-Mo? Maybe purely at PF and if Smith isn't there. Otherwise D-Mo has better size and offensive ability. Capela is young and raw, but if they can develop him right, projects to be better defensively than either one, at least at PF/C.

Smith is a tough situation to figure out. The added angle is that he and Howard are besties from their AAU days. And he and Jones play very similar roles, but neither can play C.

I basically believe Houston has to decide this summer what they want to do with Jones, and that will be tied to what they do with Smith.

And you know, if Capela or D-Mo end up the odd man out, I'd jump on one of them instead anyway. The point stands that a lot depends on what they do with Smith, because their isn't enough playing time for 5 guys, especially when 3 of them are young in their careers and need minutes to develop. **I also think it's still pretty unclear who the "better" player is/will be between D-Mo and Jones. What is clear is they're very different players.

Can Vasquez net that? That depends a lot on how desperate Houston gets (if at all) for an offensive guard. There were reports earlier that they were preparing to offer Sergio Llull $17M/3 years, who's never set foot on an NBA court and plays a similar role to Vasquez.

On Llull
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...r-three-years/

Sergio Llull, the No. 34 pick in the 2009 NBA draft, could join the Rockets next season.

How committed is Houston to Llull?

Encestando, as translated and summarized by Sportando:

"The Houston Rockets are willing to offer a three-year deal, worth around 17 mln, to Spanish guard Sergio Llull, currently playing for Real Madrid.

Daryl Morey was in Madrid two weeks ago and spoke with Llull and his agent about this possibility. Llull is under contract with Real Madrid until 2019 and there’s a very high buyout on the deal, at least 4.5 mln."

That’s a decent chunk of change, but if Llull’s buyout is so high and Houston wants him, that’s probably what it will take.

This would be a similar starting salary to what the Rockets gave Kostas Papanikolaou, another former second rounder who developed for years in Europe. But that deal, signed last summer, was for just two years, and the second season was unguaranteed.

The devil is in the details, but it sounds as if Houston is willing to pay more for Llull. That could be due to the salary cap exploding in 2016 or the Rockets’ need for guard depth. Most likely, both factor.

[Bonus Jonas]

0 chance Vasquez nets you Jones.

And what makes the ones supporting this trade think Jones is the odd one out in Houston? Smith's not even signed, Jones is better than D-Mo, and Capela had like 20? good games.

[white men can't jump]

Okay but there not going to give a promising player in T-Jones for Vasquez

And what value will Jones have next year if they bring Smith back? He'll be the 5th big on a team with few tradeable contracts (filler) and on a contract that's too small to bring back anything decent on his own. His value could be slated to go down.

He's a promising young player, but getting lost in the shuffle and pushed out of the normal rotation will not be good for his value.

I'm sure Greivis wouldn't be their plan A, but as I went over in an earlier post, there aren't an abundance of options. It could end up being a plan B (or C) that makes sense for them.

[MACK11]

They're trying to upgrade it offensively, because they have literally nobody who's good with the ball in his hands other than Harden.

Bringing back Beverley upgrades them defensively, and Vasquez would be a combo guard off the bench that would upgrade them offensively.

Okay but there not going to give a promising player in T-Jones for Vasquez