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  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's hard to compare using words like fundamentals and skills.

    I see it pretty similarly...

    Pretty much agree with you on Europe. At the grassroots level, all-around fundamentals (dribbling, passing, shooting, stances, etc...) are taught to everyone, and they're taught how to apply them in a team-first concept.

    In USA, kids are taught individual play and how to dominate on their own. So first and foremost, it's searching for guys with physical tools to dominate, improving on them, and too often catering skills development to basically as limited a scope as the player needs to continue dominating. So some guys never learn things they should when they're in early stages of learning the game, and it becomes a lot harder to teach it to them later. That's why the skill level is especially inconsistent among big men.
    It is Allen Iverson vs Manu ginobili

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    • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
      In USA, kids are taught individual play and how to dominate on their own. So first and foremost, it's searching for guys with physical tools to dominate, improving on them, and too often catering skills development to basically as limited a scope as the player needs to continue dominating. So some guys never learn things they should when they're in early stages of learning the game, and it becomes a lot harder to teach it to them later. That's why the skill level is especially inconsistent among big men.
      But at the same time the USA game teaches big men how to play defense and rebound, something the European game greatly lacks.

      European system is socialism, everyone gets taught the same skills.
      North American game is capitalism, find your niche and put all your resources in that to dominate with that specific skill.

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      • Letter N wrote: View Post
        But at the same time the USA game teaches big men how to play defense and rebound, something the European game greatly lacks.

        European system is socialism, everyone gets taught the same skills.
        North American game is capitalism, find your niche and put all your resources in that to dominate with that specific skill.
        No it doesn't. I don't know where you're getting this from. They often have horrible defensive IQ, and poor fundamental rebounding skills. They're very big and athletic, so they get rebounding and block numbers just from that. But it's not like the US spits out amazing defensive players. Most of them have to learn to apply their tremendous gifts after they make it to the NBA (*or if they're lucky and have their head screwed on right, in NCAA with a decent program). The few that don't are rare exceptions, not the norm.
        Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Feb 23rd, 2015, 07:07 PM.

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        • *What Euros learn too much though is the fucking flop techniques...Holy crap does Europe ever lead in that category. Asik just reminded me of that tonight.

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          • Outside of the Gasols (one of which grew up in the North American ball system) I couldn't name a single Euro big man who would crack a top 10 defensive bigs list.


            Here's hoping Val will become the exception.

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            • Letter N wrote: View Post
              Outside of the Gasols (one of which grew up in the North American ball system) I couldn't name a single Euro big man who would crack a top 10 defensive bigs list.


              Here's hoping Val will become the exception.
              Umm....Serge Ibaka. Asik probably is a top 10 defensive big as well. Considering the general amount of US players vs Euros/foreigners, that's not too bad at all. Then you still have Marc Gasol.

              That's also a seriously flawed way of looking at it. Especially if you say "outside 2 of the best big men of the last decade"....It's like, there are generally many more American than Euro players. Having 2, 3 or 4 in the top 10 is a fuckload.

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              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                It is Allen Iverson vs Manu ginobili
                Starbury vs Tony Parker

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                • http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/01/nba-st...iamond-grillz/

                  Bruno and Bledsoe can compare their bites.

                  Oh to have money to "grill".


                  *did you see what I did there?*

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                  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    *What Euros learn too much though is the fucking flop techniques...Holy crap does Europe ever lead in that category. Asik just reminded me of that tonight.
                    Flops.

                    getting to the spot...... drawing a charge, and an important turnover.

                    ya...dirty fundamentals....so cowardly.


                    I fucin glove the weak ass anti-lopping crowd. I used to eat them up on the court because 9/10 of them are complete pussies....COMPLETE.

                    Say what you want, I won't care. Guys who draw charges are PLAYERS..... guys who complain and soft as fuck.

                    You wanna be mad, be mad. youre soft.

                    Comment


                    • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                      http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/01/nba-st...iamond-grillz/

                      Bruno and Bledsoe can compare their bites.

                      Oh to have money to "grill".


                      *did you see what I did there?*
                      wtf are these guys thinking?

                      Comment


                      • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        Umm....Serge Ibaka. Asik probably is a top 10 defensive big as well. Considering the general amount of US players vs Euros/foreigners, that's not too bad at all. Then you still have Marc Gasol.

                        That's also a seriously flawed way of looking at it. Especially if you say "outside 2 of the best big men of the last decade"....It's like, there are generally many more American than Euro players. Having 2, 3 or 4 in the top 10 is a fuckload.
                        Fun fact: Ibaka born and raised in the Congo, only moved to Europe at 17 and played in Spain for 2 years before the NBA. Those two years would be crucial developmentally at that age, for sure. Also, he's the youngest of 18 kids.

                        My personal theory re: the late development of bigs is that a lot of them don't become "bigs" until they're 17 or 18, or even later. That's when a lot of them grow an extra 6 inches over their peers. Plenty of bigs were guards (some even point guards) growing up and through much of high school. Think of learning an entirely new position just a year or two before hitting the NBA....
                        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                        • Also, I really doubt that bigs used to be more skilled (I'm suspicious of any line of thinking that starts with "Back in my day..."). There have always been stiffs playing the 4/5 in the NBA - lots of them. The truly skilled big men have likewise always been a prized commodity, and there are a bunch of very good ones right now.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                          Comment


                          • S.R. wrote: View Post
                            Fun fact: Ibaka born and raised in the Congo, only moved to Europe at 17 and played in Spain for 2 years before the NBA. Those two years would be crucial developmentally at that age, for sure. Also, he's the youngest of 18 kids.

                            My personal theory re: the late development of bigs is that a lot of them don't become "bigs" until they're 17 or 18, or even later. That's when a lot of them grow an extra 6 inches over their peers. Plenty of bigs were guards (some even point guards) growing up and through much of high school. Think of learning an entirely new position just a year or two before hitting the NBA....
                            Yep, that's part of it too. Even if they are "bigs", they still haven't quite finished growing or filling out. But in general, between the level of organization on the court and the level of talent, most system/IQ related development starts pretty late. But you can also learn a lot in a short time depending on what's being hammered into you.

                            My point was that in too many schools in the USA, most bigs will not be asked to learn individual and team skills even when they hit 17-18, because they simply don't need them to dominate at that level, and coaches are far too ok with that.

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                            • S.R. wrote: View Post
                              Also, I really doubt that bigs used to be more skilled (I'm suspicious of any line of thinking that starts with "Back in my day..."). There have always been stiffs playing the 4/5 in the NBA - lots of them. The truly skilled big men have likewise always been a prized commodity, and there are a bunch of very good ones right now.
                              It wasn't that all bigs were more skilled, but man is it rare for guys to come in with a decent fundamental package.

                              I mean, Ewing wasn't super skilled like Hakeem or anything, but he could hit a little shots in the lane, could shoot free throws, had some refinement in his game. Robinson could should a jumper and didn't need to just finish with dunks around the basket.

                              There are too many current Cs who can't shoot a lick. They can't finish in the lane, or even around the basket very well unless they can easily dunk it.

                              I don't think this is one of those memory bias type situations. Guys weren't all super skilled before, but they had at least some rounding out of their fundamentals so that they weren't totally one-dimensional offensive players.

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                              • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                                Flops.

                                getting to the spot...... drawing a charge, and an important turnover.

                                ya...dirty fundamentals....so cowardly.


                                I fucin glove the weak ass anti-lopping crowd. I used to eat them up on the court because 9/10 of them are complete pussies....COMPLETE.

                                Say what you want, I won't care. Guys who draw charges are PLAYERS..... guys who complain and soft as fuck.

                                You wanna be mad, be mad. youre soft.
                                So...all charges drawn are flops? WTF are you talking about man?

                                Flops are flops. It is pretending a certain amount of contact happened in the hopes of cheating the refs into a whistle. Cheating is never welcome in sports. It doesn't matter what form it's in.

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