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  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I just think you need to temper your expectations....I mean, what were you thinking a couple of weeks ago? Would you have ever thought he should be playing over 50 games?

    Now, after 2 decent showings in terrible, structureless, garbage preseason basketball, he's bound to get at least that and anything less is mishandling his development?
    Kid is good enough to get MINIMAL burn.

    Thats all I'm saying.

    If you disagree, so be it.

    Comment


    • I just hope that Masai isn't the type of GM that tells the coach how to coach. I think we already know how that turns out(BC and AB).
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
        Kid is good enough to get MINIMAL burn.

        Thats all I'm saying.

        If you disagree, so be it.
        Again though, you're judging good enough from 2 limited minute stints in preseason in by far the ugliest games we've played so far even in the preseason, against 2 of the crappiest teams in the league (Melo could push Knicks to playoffs, but behind him they look like a bottomfeeder roster).

        I'm very encouraged by what he's shown. He clearly already has some skills that are useful....

        But he's so young and raw, and our team is pretty deep and trying to win as much as possible. 20-30 games at 10ish mpg would be minimal burn IMO. 50+ games is a fairly large amount for a raw rookie on a playoff-bound team (unless we have serious injury issues).

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          I just hope that Masai isn't the type of GM that tells the coach how to coach. I think we already know how that turns out(BC and AB).
          Don't think he is. Think he's fine watching and evaluating what the coach does without meddling so directly. Obviously if they have a good coach-GM relationship, they'll freely converse about the team and how they each evaluate things....

          But ultimately, I don't know if Masai would be the type to tell a coach what to do....If he doesn't like it and they can't figure things out, he'll just end up firing him.

          Comment


          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            Again though, you're judging good enough from 2 limited minute stints in preseason in by far the ugliest games we've played so far even in the preseason, against 2 of the crappiest teams in the league (Melo could push Knicks to playoffs, but behind him they look like a bottomfeeder roster).

            I'm very encouraged by what he's shown. He clearly already has some skills that are useful....

            But he's so young and raw, and our team is pretty deep and trying to win as much as possible. 20-30 games at 10ish mpg would be minimal burn IMO. 50+ games is a fairly large amount for a raw rookie on a playoff-bound team (unless we have serious injury issues).

            You do realize the Raptors have 8 games against those bottom feeders and another 4 games versus Philly. I just took care of nearly 25% of the 50 games with 3 teams.


            Perry Jones managed 7.4 minutes per game and 38 appearances playing behind Durant in OKC as a rookie. I don't think it is a stretch to think Caboclo could get another 2.5 minutes and another 12 games.


            The kid has talent and a skill set that leads to wins - shooting and defense, traits that happen to be Casey hallmarks ironically enough.


            These last two games are not what I am judging him on. These last two games merely confirm what has been a changing thought process since Summer League. I guess I'm to assume the only player that can exceed expectations through hard work (forget natural talent!) is a certain SG.

            Comment


            • I can see the chat with Casey and the assistant coaches and trainers.


              DC: Yo, guys. WTF, man?!?! What are you doing with Bruno? You realize he is ahead of the 4 year plan? If you guys keep putting in the time and he keeps soaking it up, working his ass off he might be able to contribute in spot minutes this year. You know we can't have that now! Enough already. Slow down the development.

              Assistant Coaches and Trainers: Yeah, our bad. Sorry coach.

              Comment


              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                Kid is good enough to get MINIMAL burn.

                Thats all I'm saying.

                If you disagree, so be it.

                i agree with this, added with your "if raps don't play down to their opponent" comment. Bruno should be able to play against boston, philly etc. no problem. if he keeps hitting the corner 3, he isn't a pylon on offense because that corner has to br respected. then he gets meaningful defense practice. he will be pulled his first mistake, talked to and thrown back out there.

                i don't think "minimal burn" means 5-10 minutes a game, but when the opportunity arises, he gets out there.

                Comment


                • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                  You do realize the Raptors have 8 games against those bottom feeders and another 4 games versus Philly. I just took care of nearly 25% of the 50 games with 3 teams.

                  Perry Jones managed 7.4 minutes per game and 38 appearances playing behind Durant in OKC as a rookie. I don't think it is a stretch to think Caboclo could get another 2.5 minutes and another 12 games.


                  The kid has talent and a skill set that leads to wins - shooting and defense, traits that happen to be Casey hallmarks ironically enough.


                  These last two games are not what I am judging him on. These last two games merely confirm what has been a changing thought process since Summer League. I guess I'm to assume the only player that can exceed expectations through hard work (forget natural talent!) is a certain SG.
                  Why do you even bring DeMar into this? It's like you're programmed to.

                  I have been very vocal about how Casey treats his young players. However, those young players, such as Jonas and Ross, were on the team in their rookie years that should have definitely seen them play more minutes. The team was bad, the season was a mess, and there were no core players (or guys who should've been considered that) ahead of them in the rotation. When I think of all the minutes that went to guys like Bargnani, Gray, Anderson, and because I never understood the deal, Rudy "the bricklayer" Gay, I almost cry. And we all read the stories about how BC was meddling, specifically to keep playing Bargs, even including that later in the season it was to try and showcase him for potential trades.

                  However it was still clear Casey just wanted to win and really overtrusts vets, with evidence exhibit A being Salmons, John, and exhibit B being Alan Anderson. We know this isn't going to change significantly, even if it's something he's aware of and wants to work to change a bit. It will take extreme situations for Bruno to see the floor. While I'd be glad it gives Bruno minutes, I wouldn't be too happy with the situation in general as it means key guys are injured. Not sure Bruno gets in with just one injury....maybe if it's DeMar because he'll eat the most minutes.

                  IMO, the most consistent scenario Bruno could get minutes in any game, against any team, is extremely limited situational minutes. I think if there's on obvious way Bruno can contribute without question, it's as a defender on inbounds plays in late shot/game clock situations. Especially on the inbounder. This may be the way he gets 50+ appearances, but many of those extremely limited time.

                  Even for blowouts, many of them will be the last few minutes of a game, rarely more than 5.

                  So I guess I do agree he could see 50+ games, but again, I'm thinking in that scenario it's because Casey at least has the sense to use him, sometimes even just for mere seconds, to defend on late-clock inbound plays.

                  Comment


                  • I'd set the over/under for Bruno's minutes at something like 400 for the season, and even that feels a bit high. Quincy Acy got 342 minutes as a rookie, and he was older and considered more "NBA-ready" than Bruno.

                    I thought if anyone got minutes this season it'd be Nogueira, given our centre situation, but now that he's out for preseason, I think Bruno might have the jump early on for a few minutes here and there. Unfortunately/fortunately with JJ we're pretty deep at the wing now, so I doubt we see much of Bruno unless we have some blowouts.

                    At least the kid will be practising with the team, it's hard to understate the importance and benefits of that. Looking at Nerlens Noel it's kind of amazing how solid he looks after such a long layoff, it really speaks to Brett Brown's regimen for him. Dude was 12/11/4/3/1 tonight.
                    It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

                    Comment


                    • I'm kind of tired of this discussion. More than anything it just feels like you've really exploded your expectations, and mostly to establish a reason to criticize Casey as the season goes on.

                      Comment


                      • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                        I count Lou/GV as one on the WING depth chart since both will also spend time at PG.

                        DD
                        Ross
                        GV/Lou
                        JJ
                        BRUNO
                        Fields


                        There will be blowouts, injuries, and spot minutes available. If he can't get in to 50-55 games this season then the only issue is the coach.
                        Don't think it's time to start blaming Casey already.

                        There's 96 minutes available at the wing spots.

                        Ross and DeRozan play there exclusively. That's ~65 minutes right there. Then you've got James Johnson who is going to get at least 15 minutes a night (maybe 5 of them at PF?), maybe more. That's 80. At PG there are 48 minutes available, if Lowry's playing 30, that leaves 18 for Greivis. That means 20 minutes left for Lou Williams at the 2 spot and whatever minutes GV gets there. So zero.

                        If you're thinking he can get PT at PF, remember 2Pat and Amir each are gonna get like 25mpg. Obviously some will be at center, but the rest will probably be snapped up by James Johnson.

                        Remember we didn't have a proper backup SG or SF last year, that's why guys like Fields, Novak and Salmons got minutes. Now we have James Johnson and Lou Williams who are both ~20mpg guys. It's not that simple to just give Bruno 10mpg like that.
                        If you're thinking he might play

                        Comment


                        • NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
                          Don't think it's time to start blaming Casey already.

                          There's 96 minutes available at the wing spots.

                          Ross and DeRozan play there exclusively. That's ~65 minutes right there. Then you've got James Johnson who is going to get at least 15 minutes a night (maybe 5 of them at PF?), maybe more. That's 80. At PG there are 48 minutes available, if Lowry's playing 30, that leaves 18 for Greivis. That means 20 minutes left for Lou Williams at the 2 spot and whatever minutes GV gets there. So zero.

                          If you're thinking he can get PT at PF, remember 2Pat and Amir each are gonna get like 25mpg. Obviously some will be at center, but the rest will probably be snapped up by James Johnson.

                          Remember we didn't have a proper backup SG or SF last year, that's why guys like Fields, Novak and Salmons got minutes. Now we have James Johnson and Lou Williams who are both ~20mpg guys. It's not that simple to just give Bruno 10mpg like that.
                          If you're thinking he might play
                          Averages are just that.

                          I'm not talking 82 games.

                          One game to the next will have different circumstances.

                          Comment


                          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            Why do you even bring DeMar into this? It's like you're programmed to.

                            I have been very vocal about how Casey treats his young players. However, those young players, such as Jonas and Ross, were on the team in their rookie years that should have definitely seen them play more minutes. The team was bad, the season was a mess, and there were no core players (or guys who should've been considered that) ahead of them in the rotation. When I think of all the minutes that went to guys like Bargnani, Gray, Anderson, and because I never understood the deal, Rudy "the bricklayer" Gay, I almost cry. And we all read the stories about how BC was meddling, specifically to keep playing Bargs, even including that later in the season it was to try and showcase him for potential trades.

                            However it was still clear Casey just wanted to win and really overtrusts vets, with evidence exhibit A being Salmons, John, and exhibit B being Alan Anderson. We know this isn't going to change significantly, even if it's something he's aware of and wants to work to change a bit. It will take extreme situations for Bruno to see the floor. While I'd be glad it gives Bruno minutes, I wouldn't be too happy with the situation in general as it means key guys are injured. Not sure Bruno gets in with just one injury....maybe if it's DeMar because he'll eat the most minutes.

                            IMO, the most consistent scenario Bruno could get minutes in any game, against any team, is extremely limited situational minutes. I think if there's on obvious way Bruno can contribute without question, it's as a defender on inbounds plays in late shot/game clock situations. Especially on the inbounder. This may be the way he gets 50+ appearances, but many of those extremely limited time.

                            Even for blowouts, many of them will be the last few minutes of a game, rarely more than 5.

                            So I guess I do agree he could see 50+ games, but again, I'm thinking in that scenario it's because Casey at least has the sense to use him, sometimes even just for mere seconds, to defend on late-clock inbound plays.
                            DeMar is poster child for hardwork which is why he gets brought in to it.


                            So Bruno could get minutes due to situations, blowouts, and injuries and that might lead to 50+ games.

                            Good.

                            We're in agreement.

                            Comment


                            • My thoughts - yes, Bruno could easily be used in the Novak role and thrive in it. No, he won't be afforded that chance. He'll get time due to injuries, but I would honestly be shocked if he saw action in 50 games.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                My thoughts - yes, Bruno could easily be used in the Novak role and thrive in it. No, he won't be afforded that chance. He'll get time due to injuries, but I would honestly be shocked if he saw action in 50 games.
                                "No, he won't be afforded that chance."

                                And that is the problem

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