Everything Bruno Caboclo

[Cody73]

"No, he won't be afforded that chance."

And that is the problem

You know what? Casey wants to take time with this kid for a reason. He sees us as a playoff contender, not a pretender. If we don't do as well as we think we will or lose a guy to injury, he'll get his chance. I agree he deserves a chance, but playing him in the D-League may help his potential more than playing garbage minutes.

[mcHAPPY]

You know what? Casey wants to take time with this kid for a reason. He sees us as a playoff contender, not a pretender. If we don't do as well as we think we will or lose a guy to injury, he'll get his chance. I agree he deserves a chance, but playing him in the D-League may help his potential more than playing garbage minutes.

Perry Jones managed 7.4mins in 38 games on a TITLE contender behind one of the best in the game.

Bold: Exactly. Injuries, blow outs, game situations are more than enough to give him on average 10 mins per game.

As for D-League, I'm not sure. Raps don't own their own team and have limited control of his playing time when sent down. He'd likely be better off getting practice versus NBA talent, learning team systems, and getting those measly 10mins per game on average in about 50-55 games.

[iblastoff]

i think the early, promising looks hes gotten in preseason will earn him a bit more time in the regular season, but even then i can't see him playing in 50+ games for 10 minutes each. that seems like a lot to me.

especially if the games go like the way they did last year (barely any injuries, and raptors were nearly at the top of the list of being in close scoring wins/losses, so hardly any blowouts).

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Perry Jones managed 7.4mins in 38 games on a TITLE contender behind one of the best in the game.

Bold: Exactly. Injuries, blow outs, game situations are more than enough to give him on average 10 mins per game.

As for D-League, I'm not sure. Raps don't own their own team and have limited control of his playing time when sent down. He'd likely be better off getting practice versus NBA talent, learning team systems, and getting those measly 10mins per game on average in about 50-55 games.

I am definitely supportive of young players getting playing time (and I've complained about DC's approach with Valanciunas & Ross earlier in their careers), but I have a hard time believing Bruno will get into that many games or average that much PT.

PJIII and Lamb were both 3rd string players their first season in OKC, playing behind Durant, Thabo, Kmart and Brewer. They were much more polished prospects with solid NCAA experience/credentials, yet they averaged under 8 MPG in around 30 games played.

I was pushing for JV & TR to get more playing time on bad Raptors teams that weren't expected to be playoff contenders, in seasons I was supportive of making player development and asset acquisition the top priority (ie: tanking, to be extreme). With the Raptors now having different priorities (ie: winning the division and looking to the 2nd round of the playoffs and beyond), with much more quality depth at all positions, I just can't see Bruno getting nearly as much playing time as you expect.

I really do hope the Raptors are so good this season that there's a lot more garbage time, for the 3rd strings to get NBA playing time. Less MPG and/or less games played I could understand, but 10 MPG over 50+ games... unless the Raptors become a dominant force and/or are decimated by injuries, I just don't see it happening.

[mcHAPPY]

i think the early, promising looks hes gotten in preseason will earn him a bit more time in the regular season, but even then i can't see him playing in 50+ games for 10 minutes each. that seems like a lot to me.

especially if the games go like the way they did last year (barely any injuries, and raptors were nearly at the top of the list of being in close scoring wins/losses, so hardly any blowouts).

Not 10 mins each..... On average.

You raise a good point though - if Raps don't start playing to their ability versus competition the season is going to be a failure, in my opinion. Good teams usually take care of business versus the weaker teams. If the Raptors are a good team there should be some blowouts whereby last 7-8 mins of the game are 'free.'

Also let's not forget he can space the floor and defend. Those are great traits to have playing for Casey.

[mcHAPPY]

I am definitely supportive of young players getting playing time (and I've complained about DC's approach with Valanciunas & Ross earlier in their careers), but I have a hard time believing Bruno will get into that many games or average that much PT.

PJIII and Lamb were both 3rd string players their first season in OKC, playing behind Durant, Thabo, Kmart and Brewer. They were much more polished prospects with solid NCAA experience/credentials, yet they averaged under 8 MPG in around 30 games played.

I was pushing for JV & TR to get more playing time on bad Raptors teams that weren't expected to be playoff contenders, in seasons I was supportive of making player development and asset acquisition the top priority (ie: tanking, to be extreme). With the Raptors now having different priorities (ie: winning the division and looking to the 2nd round of the playoffs and beyond), with much more quality depth at all positions, I just can't see Bruno getting nearly as much playing time as you expect.

I really do hope the Raptors are so good this season that there's a lot more garbage time, for the 3rd strings to get NBA playing time. Less MPG and/or less games played I could understand, but 10 MPG over 50+ games... unless the Raptors become a dominant force and/or are decimated by injuries, I just don't see it happening.

I have a hard time believing it will happen. However I do believe it should happen.

Question: you say you hope Bruno gets 50+gm/10min but don't see it happening; is that because Bruno not good enough or is it Casey doesn't play youth?

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I have a hard time believing it will happen. However I do believe it should happen.

Question: you say you hope Bruno gets 50+gm/10min but don't see it happening; is that because Bruno not good enough or is it Casey doesn't play youth?

Neither really, though I suppose my reasoning leans more towards the first option, in that he isn't yet good enough to earn more playing time over the players ahead of him in the depth chart.

I think DeRozan, Ross, Williams and some time from Vasquez, will eat a substantial part of the wing playing time. I hate JJ, but understand the need for the team to give playing time to an established defensive stopper on the wing (be it a reformed JJ or a healed Fields), which eats up even more of the wing minutes.

I could see JJ getting some time at PF in small-ball lineups, but there's good depth up front now too, with Hansbrough, Hayes and Stiemsma fighting for minutes as the 4th big behind Valanciunas, Amir and Patterson.

I will never argue against the notion that Casey favors veterans, but I personally don't think a lack of playing time for Bruno is similar to years past, when guys like Salmons, Anderson, Butler, Pietrus and Wright were stealing time away from young players. If Bruno doesn't play, it's because he hasn't earned it away from legit players who deserve it more, especially with the team focused on winning this season.

[grindhouse]

The kid has to learn the language, learn the offenses, learn all the defenses, work on every single area of his game cause as of right now ALL he has is a jump shot and athleticism. I will pray he does all of that in 2 years cause as much as I like demar I don't see championship with him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[golden]

Neither really, though I suppose my reasoning leans more towards the first option, in that he isn't yet good enough to earn more playing time over the players ahead of him in the depth chart.

I think DeRozan, Ross, Williams and some time from Vasquez, will eat a substantial part of the wing playing time. I hate JJ, but understand the need for the team to give playing time to an established defensive stopper on the wing (be it a reformed JJ or a healed Fields), which eats up even more of the wing minutes.

I could see JJ getting some time at PF in small-ball lineups, but there's good depth up front now too, with Hansbrough, Hayes and Stiemsma fighting for minutes as the 4th big behind Valanciunas, Amir and Patterson.

I will never argue against the notion that Casey favors veterans, but I personally don't think a lack of playing time for Bruno is similar to years past, when guys like Salmons, Anderson, Butler, Pietrus and Wright were stealing time away from young players. If Bruno doesn't play, it's because he hasn't earned it away from legit players who deserve it more, especially with the team focused on winning this season.

I think this is the crux of issue people have with Casey. It's not a matter of deserving, it's a matter of trusting. In Salmon's case, it was obvious to all that at some point, he shouldn't have even been put into games. Even a one-armed Fields would be a better option, or simply sticking with Ross. However, Casey trusts his veterans, because he feels that they should make the right plays, and is willing to roll the dice on that. The unfairness comes in when fans see that Casey's trusted veterans aren't really contributing to winning, but there seems to be no negative consequences (i.e. less playing time) to the vets. In contrast, when the rooks or sophs make one mistake, it's an immediate hook.

[white men can't jump]

DeMar is poster child for hardwork which is why he gets brought in to it.


So Bruno could get minutes due to situations, blowouts, and injuries and that might lead to 50+ games.

Good.

We're in agreement.

Again...that DeMar angle was not at all part of this discussion whatsoever...

And we're not at all in agreement. The scenario where I see him in 50+ games is where in many of those appearances he'd be lucky to get in for 10 seconds, let alone 10 minutes, and thus doesn't really do anything for his development. Not the situation I think you're hoping for, nor I, and one that probably isn't better than sending him for D-League stints where he gets actual minutes and shots.

Blowouts could end up being 10 games give or take. And injuries are not something we should be hoping for just so Bruno gets going, and again, don't think he even sees the floor unless there are multiple guys down.

I also agree with CRF that with our depth, and veteran options even such as Fields, the chances for Bruno will generally be very limited. While Casey is a guy we knock for not playing youngsters, I think most coaches in the league wouldn't be inclined to play a raw 19 year old rookie with no high level playing experience ahead of guys who are all experienced NBA players, especially if trying to become a contender is the main goal for the season. These snippets from CRF's posts really sums things up well I think, including addressing your need to bring PJ3 into this, despite the situation being very different.

PJIII and Lamb were both 3rd string players their first season in OKC, playing behind Durant, Thabo, Kmart and Brewer. They were much more polished prospects with solid NCAA experience/credentials, yet they averaged under 8 MPG in around 30 games played.

I really do hope the Raptors are so good this season that there's a lot more garbage time, for the 3rd strings to get NBA playing time. Less MPG and/or less games played I could understand, but 10 MPG over 50+ games... unless the Raptors become a dominant force and/or are decimated by injuries, I just don't see it happening.

Just to add to the OKC angle...after their top 3 wings, Durant, Thabo and Kevin Martin, they only had young players. And that's pretty much across their bench after their top 8. (It was after Ronnie Brewer's game fell off a cliff and he was fifty times more useless than even Fields). Brooks didn't really have much choice but to play young guys like Jones and Lamb, and they still didn't get what you're asking for with Bruno. And as CRF points out, these were established NCAA players, both older and more experienced than Bruno.

I will never argue against the notion that Casey favors veterans, but I personally don't think a lack of playing time for Bruno is similar to years past, when guys like Salmons, Anderson, Butler, Pietrus and Wright were stealing time away from young players. If Bruno doesn't play, it's because he hasn't earned it away from legit players who deserve it more, especially with the team focused on winning this season.

And this very much shows how different the situation is when you see the guys who were playing ahead of Ross before, and now consider who actually is ahead of Bruno in the depth chart. Again, this just feels like an excuse for you to start establishing Casey-bashing reasons, before the season even starts. The amount of games Bruno plays should be beyond an afterthought in terms of goals for this season.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I think this is the crux of issue people have with Casey. It's not a matter of deserving, it's a matter of trusting. In Salmon's case, it was obvious to all that at some point, he shouldn't have even been put into games. Even a one-armed Fields would be a better option, or simply sticking with Ross. However, Casey trusts his veterans, because he feels that they should make the right plays, and is willing to roll the dice on that. The unfairness comes in when fans see that Casey's trusted veterans aren't really contributing to winning, but there seems to be no negative consequences (i.e. less playing time) to the vets. In contrast, when the rooks or sophs make one mistake, it's an immediate hook.

In the part you bolded, when I said "who deserve it more", what I meant by that was that they had already earned their playing time.

I agree that all players should continue to have to earn their playing time, regardless whether they're a rookie or grizzled vet, starter or backup. I think a 3rd string guy like Bruno, who is so young and inexperienced, has to do so much more to prove that he's not only worthy of playing time, but that he's worthy of it ahead of the other players who are currently ahead of him on the Raptors' depth chart.

Believe me, I was as vocal as anybody on here over the past few seasons, regarding the quick hook that DC had for Valanciunas & Ross and, more importantly, his unwillingness to put them back in within the same game to show that they were able to correct their mistakes.

[Chr1s1anL]

I don't want to be seen as a Bruno hater, cause I actually like him a lot. His skill set complement our franchise players Klow and DD. Also I believe him and AJ would cover JV's shortcoming defensively pretty well. Having said all that Bruno hasn't proven or earned anything

[stooley]

In the part you bolded, when I said "who deserve it more", what I meant by that was that they had already earned their playing time.

I agree that all players should continue to have to earn their playing time, regardless whether they're a rookie or grizzled vet, starter or backup. I think a 3rd string guy like Bruno, who is so young and inexperienced, has to do so much more to prove that he's not only worthy of playing time, but that he's worthy of it ahead of the other players who are currently ahead of him on the Raptors' depth chart.

Believe me, I was as vocal as anybody on here over the past few seasons, regarding the quick hook that DC had for Valanciunas & Ross and, more importantly, his unwillingness to put them back in within the same game to show that they were able to correct their mistakes.

I also think there's something to be said for the difference between rookie and (common) veteran mistakes.

While Bruno getting a steal and a turnover within a couple minutes may be equal mathematically, I think having an unpredictable teammate can affect other players negatively. Either you hesitate passing the ball for fear it won't come back or you second guess making a rotation on defense, wondering if the rookie will cover for you or not, etc.

[golden]

In the part you bolded, when I said "who deserve it more", what I meant by that was that they had already earned their playing time.

I agree that all players should continue to have to earn their playing time, regardless whether they're a rookie or grizzled vet, starter or backup. I think a 3rd string guy like Bruno, who is so young and inexperienced, has to do so much more to prove that he's not only worthy of playing time, but that he's worthy of it ahead of the other players who are currently ahead of him on the Raptors' depth chart.

Believe me, I was as vocal as anybody on here over the past few seasons, regarding the quick hook that DC had for Valanciunas & Ross and, more importantly, his unwillingness to put them back in within the same game to show that they were able to correct their mistakes.

Ok, I probably over-reacted to semantics, but it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg, isn't it. Why should the bar be higher for rooks and sophs? It should really be case-by-case. And how do young players get the opportunity to even prove they're worthy, when they are not getting minutes and looking over their shoulder when they do? Players in that situation are tense and not playing loose - over-thinking and forcing your game instead of letting it come to you, just so you can make a visible impact. It's a negative spiral. That was basically what T. Ross said... becoming a starter allowed him to play relaxed, knowing he would have guaranteed minutes and be allowed to play through his mistakes. I'm not saying to make everything rook a starter, but if the goal is development, and he isn't hurting the team, then there should be some level of consistency with respect to role and minutes. And in the case of Ross' development, if Casey's alternative was Salmons (or Anderson, before that), then it should have been a no-brainer. If all of them suck equally, then you give Ross the minutes because at least you can get some long term return-on-investment by developing him. There's no point in 'investing' in players who have either plateaued, or worse in the case of Salmons - is on the downside, when you have equally 'bad' options.

[S.R.]

Casey's m.o. of teaching young guys by benching them for mistakes and requiring them to earn their minutes by doing what he's asking them to do is well established and not at all unique. A lot of coaches do that, virtually all of them when you're talking playoff teams.

You don't hook a vet like Salmons the same way because a.) He's already earned his minutes (that's what being a vet is all about), and b.) You disrespect a 30+ year old vet by treating him like a 19 year old kid. You'd talk to Salmons instead of benching him, but you'd also be aware of his limitations - he is what he is at that stage - whereas you're still hoping to develop the skills and mindset of your young guys.

This stuff isn't that weird and I don't know why theae boards get so riled up about it. I'd have liked to see JV and Ross get a few more minutes last year, but I can appreciate what Casey's doing. It's just a coaching style, which'll suit some players better than giving them a long leash and some less so.