#FireCasey

[raptors999]

Bingo. JJ was clearly the better option for minutes in many situations. Even with Fields complete lack of shooting, his ball movement, off ball cuts and defence made him worth while for a few minutes (heck, those characteristics basically describe Chuck Hayes' role).

I reject any notion that people saying Casey was dumb to not play JJ more are simply JJ "boosters".

it isnt even playing JJ but not defending with GV,Lou or Ross in situations where they needed stops or giving up career nights to scrubs

[Fully]

Regarding the JJ/Casey situation, wasn't there a lot of speculation (and maybe even some reporting) that they had a blow up at some point this season that caused his playing time to be scaled way back?

It doesn't completely absolve Casey of blame by any means but it's worthwhile context in the conversation.

[white men can't jump]

Regarding the JJ/Casey situation, wasn't there a lot of speculation (and maybe even some reporting) that they had a blow up at some point this season that caused his playing time to be scaled way back?

It doesn't completely absolve Casey of blame by any means but it's worthwhile context in the conversation.

There were rumours/speculation that the blow up happened because JJ called out Casey for not holding all players to the same standard of accountability. At least I seem to remember something along those lines. If true, that doesn't really make Casey look any better.

[Wild-ling#1]

Just so you know, I write for the HQ too and Sean is alone on that one - maybe a dozen writers for the site and we all think he's crazy (well, a couple guys are ambivalent).

The thesis is essentially "maybe Dwane Casey is right and JJ hurts more than he helps, and it just somehow doesn't show up in any numbers at all, leaving no evidence at all that this could possibly be the case."

I don't think that's quite fair.

First, let me say that I find these discussions to be "value added" to my experience of enjoying the Raptors. I'm not here to argue. I'm here to discuss ... and learn. Thanks for helping with that.

Secondly, I think the "story" of James Johnson (at 28 and entering his ninth season), is more complicated than what is sometimes suggested here. I think the following article, from when he left Memphis, perhaps captures some sense of it.

http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2014...oronto-raptors

Chris faulkner wrote:

However, I'm not surprised to see him leave Memphis, and I'm not surprised his card was called so early into free agency when others saw him as a Grizzlies' backup plan later this summer. He's got undeniable talent and a nice set of skills (although lacking one of the main features the Grizzlies need, shooting a basketball) and it makes sense for him to return to a team where he's arguably had the most success and playing time in his career. ....
JJ has a great knack for getting to the free throw line (when the refs are paying attention) and, more importantly, knocking them down as he hit at a 84% clip from the charity stripe in Memphis (a full 25% better than his rate the season before) and isn't afraid to defend some of the best basketball players in the world, although they usually ended up getting the better of him. ....
Johnson had a rough tumble to end the season in Memphis as he was played sparingly through the final two months of the season before logging only 28 minutes in the 2014 NBA Playoffs as the Grizzlies went seven games against the OKC Thunder. .... Ultimately, however, I feel as though he didn't quite match up to the system that Dave Joerger wants to hone this offseason. We've got our chaos master in Tony Allen, and we're honestly still trying to figure out exactly what the hell to do with him a lot of the time.

He's gotten significant minutes under Casey and his PER - terrible for his first six years - has blossomed in the last two. He has considerable talent, but also some obvious limitations - and isn't easy to coach, it seems ... so that one can't simply extrapolate from success he's had to a larger role ... where his weaknesses and lack of discipline might be very much exposed ...

Which was Sean's point, I think. As with JV, Casey is simply blamed for "holding him back". Few will even consider that Casey has been protecting him (and the team) while trying to bring him along.

No?

[DanH]

I don't think that's quite fair.

First, let me say that I find these discussions to be "value added" to my experience of enjoying the Raptors. I'm not here to argue. I'm here to discuss ... and learn. Thanks for helping with that.

Secondly, I think the "story" of James Johnson (at 28 and entering his ninth season), is more complicated than what is sometimes suggested here. I think the following article, from when he left Memphis, perhaps captures some sense of it.

http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2014...oronto-raptors

Chris faulkner wrote:



He's gotten significant minutes under Casey and his PER - terrible for his first six years - has blossomed in the last two. He has considerable talent, but also some obvious limitations - and isn't easy to coach, it seems ... so that one can't simply extrapolate from success he's had to a larger role ... where his weaknesses and lack of discipline might be very much exposed ...

Which was Sean's point, I think. As with JV, Casey is simply blamed for "holding him back". Few will even consider that Casey has been protecting him (and the team) while trying to bring him along.

No?

Short answer is, considering the team's struggles, we should have found out if his success would translate to a larger role. If Casey's plan was to protect the team as he brought JJ along, then a) he did a heck of a great job protecting the team, with their .500 record in the second half and post-season sweep, and b) why do all that protecting to bring him along if you aren't going to use him in the playoffs?

[Wild-ling#1]

Short answer is, considering the team's struggles, we should have found out if his success would translate to a larger role. If Casey's plan was to protect the team as he brought JJ along, then a) he did a heck of a great job protecting the team, with their .500 record in the second half and post-season sweep, and b) why do all that protecting to bring him along if you aren't going to use him in the playoffs?

People seem to use evidence of Johnson's non-use in the playoffs as evidence of Casey's stupidity ... or of a vendetta against JJ.

Memphis did the same thing, though. I would say it's only fair to assume that, in a series going so badly, and under that kind of pressure, Casey must have been truly convinced JJ would only struggle badly against the available match-ups. Casey knows JJ very well has played him as much as anyone ever has (in the NBA).

One can still disagree. But it's the certitude of the inferences drawn and their negativity which troubles me. I know there are knowledgeable people commenting here. The quality of the comments is such that I don't (thank God!) often much read the comments after articles in other sources anymore.

But this is interpretative stuff, right. Anyone can get this stuff wrong. Including Casey. But including us, too.

[Axel]

People seem to use evidence of Johnson's non-use in the playoffs as evidence of Casey's stupidity ... or of a vendetta against JJ.

Memphis did the same thing, though. I would say it's only fair to assume that, in a series going so badly, and under that kind of pressure, Casey must have been truly convinced JJ would only struggle badly against the available match-ups. Casey knows JJ very well has played him as much as anyone ever has (in the NBA).

One can still disagree. But it's the certitude of the inferences drawn and their negativity which troubles me. I know there are knowledgeable people commenting here. The quality of the comments is such that I don't (thank God!) often much read the comments after articles in other sources anymore.

But this is interpretative stuff, right. Anyone can get this stuff wrong. Including Casey. But including us, too.

The amount of evidence that supports the theory that Casey is a moron is certainly large enough that it isn't based on any single action (or non-action). This thread has plenty of examples.

And as pointed out in the other thread, Memphis had better defensive options, so for them to diminish the role of a bit player is expected. Unfortunately, our team didn't have strong defenders ahead of JJ on the depth chart and instead chose to roll GV at SF and Hansbrough on Pierce.

Why are you troubled that people see negative actions and draw negative conclusions regarding our coach? Isn't it good that people are aware and willing to speak on it? Sounds a lot more interesting than an "all is rosy" approach.

[Chr1s1anL]

People seem to use evidence of Johnson's non-use in the playoffs as evidence of Casey's stupidity ... or of a vendetta against JJ.

Memphis did the same thing, though. I would say it's only fair to assume that, in a series going so badly, and under that kind of pressure, Casey must have been truly convinced JJ would only struggle badly against the available match-ups. Casey knows JJ very well has played him as much as anyone ever has (in the NBA).

One can still disagree. But it's the certitude of the inferences drawn and their negativity which troubles me. I know there are knowledgeable people commenting here. The quality of the comments is such that I don't (thank God!) often much read the comments after articles in other sources anymore.

But this is interpretative stuff, right. Anyone can get this stuff wrong. Including Casey. But including us, too.

Stop it your making too much sense.

[Chr1s1anL]

The amount of evidence that supports the theory that Casey is a moron is certainly large enough that it isn't based on any single action (or non-action). This thread has plenty of examples.

And as pointed out in the other thread, Memphis had better defensive options, so for them to diminish the role of a bit player is expected. Unfortunately, our team didn't have strong defenders ahead of JJ on the depth chart and instead chose to roll GV at SF and Hansbrough on Pierce.

Why are you troubled that people see negative actions and draw negative conclusions regarding our coach? Isn't it good that people are aware and willing to speak on it? Sounds a lot more interesting than an "all is rosy" approach.

JJ wasn't going to turn the tide of that serious. Without Lowry at 100 he had no shot yo beat the wiz.

[Axel]

JJ wasn't going to turn the tide of that serious. Without Lowry at 100 he had no shot yo beat the wiz.

Ah yes, the "why bother try to win" argument.

So if a team, with home court, can't even make the game close enough for a good defender to make a difference, how is that not further evidence that our coach is terrible?

[JimiCliff]

Memphis did the same thing, though. I would say it's only fair to assume that, in a series going so badly, and under that kind of pressure, Casey must have been truly convinced JJ would only struggle badly against the available match-ups. Casey knows JJ very well has played him as much as anyone ever has (in the NBA).

For anyone who doesn't remember the details, this is exactly what happened in the playoffs:

- JJ doesn't play game 1, Toronto loses, as Pierce goes off for 20 points on 7/10 from the field (and JJ is, of course, the only legitimate option on the roster to match up with PP).

- Casey get grilled post game about not playing JJ, and whether JJ will play him next game, and replies with his now infamous comment to the effect of "Adjustments are bullshit, we will not be making adjustments, we didn't make any adjustments when we won in Dallas".

- This last claim is demonstrably false, as Dallas threw Barea into the starting lineup (in game 3 I believe). Even the staunchest Casey supporter must be a little bit thrown by the fact that coach seemingly has no recollection whatsoever of a move that was one of the keys to turning the series in the Mavs' favour.

- But regardless; fine, Dwane, you don't like adjustments. Cool. You're the coach, you're getting paid the big bucks, you make the decisions.

- Game 2: what happens near the end of the second half? JJ CHECKS IN - THE ADJUSTMENT IS MADE - WTF??????? I guess Dwane had a change of heart.

- Raps up 37-34 at this point. Over the next 7+ minutes, with JJ in the game, Toronto's outscored by 14 POINTS. Wiz go into the half up 60-49. And that's pretty much game right there - Raps never get closer than 5, and go down by as much as 22. And, of course, having gone down 0-2 at home, series is over.

To me, this whole sequence of events suggests a man who really does not have a great handle on what he's doing, and is making everything up on the fly, to disastrous results.

[Chr1s1anL]

Ah yes, the "why bother try to win" argument.

So if a team, with home court, can't even make the game close enough for a good defender to make a difference, how is that not further evidence that our coach is terrible?

If wall isn't 100 percent you think they still win the serious?

[Wild-ling#1]

But it's a tough gig. We're all human.

New year, new players, new coaches ... Let's see, shall we? Onward!

[Just Is]

If wall isn't 100 percent you think they still win the serious?

So you think they wouldn't try to win? If I recall correctly, he got hurt in the Atlanta series and I'm pretty sure they didn't throw in the towel.

[OldSkoolCool]

If we are talking about how much an idiot Casey is wrt JJ there is one scenario that sums it all up

Vasquez guarding Tyreke to end the game

Casey is a stupid head coach. End of discussion. He deserves no more chances, this shit has been happening for years