#FireCasey

[big boi]

I'm not sure how pointing to the process provides better evidence than pointing to the actual on court results - what you're doing is discounting the only real evidence we have – again, the ONLY real evidence – about whether or not the system is effective or not.

2nd best offense in the entire league - better than the Hawks, better than the Warriors, better than one of Dallas or the Clippers (can't remember which lol).

Trying to say that that doesn't matter is just closed minded and stubborn.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I was just saying I'd like to hear an explanation other than just pointing to the record. We all know what the record is. Tell us something we don't know.

If people on here are going to represent that they know Something, in some cases more than others, in some cases in a cocky way, are going to say the players are being coached well, then please just give examples. I'll explain / defend anything I say on here. Right or wrong. People can agree or disagree. But if people refuse to back up their statements or opinions other than just pointing to the record, well, I won't respect them or their opinion very much, doubt if I'm the only one and I think it's fair to say it is also stubborn to only defend a position by pointing to the record. Can't be a very well thought out opinion if you can't support it by ideas, insight or observations. No matter how confidently that opinion is put forward.

[stooley]

I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I was just saying I'd like to hear an explanation other than just pointing to the record. We all know what the record is. Tell us something we don't know.

If people on here are going to represent that they know Something, in some cases more than others, in some cases in a cocky way, are going to say the players are being coached well, then please just give examples. I'll explain / defend anything I say on here. Right or wrong. People can agree or disagree. But if people refuse to back up their statements or opinions other than just pointing to the record, well, I won't respect them or their opinion very much, doubt if I'm the only one and I think it's fair to say it is also stubborn to only defend a position by pointing to the record. Can't be a very well thought out opinion if you can't support it by ideas, insight or observations. No matter how confidently that opinion is put forward.

Ok, well I'm not responding exactly to this - if you literally only point to the record over and over, then yes, that's a little weird.

But a big point I, personally, have been trying to make is that this offense, which everyone is calling out as ugly and iso-centric (and rightly so) is actually effective.

It's beyond me to explain that, but it is. That's just a fact. It's a fact that any other argument has to work around

[e_wheazhy_]

Casey doesn't suck. He's one of the best basketball minds in the world (if you consider he is one of 30 people paid to lead a team in the best league in the world). However, there are a lot (and I can't emphasize this enough- A LOT) Of flaws in his coaching style and even in his abilities.

He has not implemented a sustainable, smart offense and lives or by three pointers and his guards having good shooting nights. He has one of the best up and coming young centres who is poised to have a great career and starts games off strong, dominating his opponents more often than not, and sits him the majority of the second half. He makes some substitutions that not very easy to understand or defend.

However, he also has some qualities: he's a great locker room leader, he has the respect of his guys, he (when he wants to be) is a great defensive mind, and he makes all of his players play out of their minds ( for the most part). He makes guys want to work together and believe in themselves and in that builds a roster that is way better than the sum of its parts. Very few coaches are without warts in this world and there are egos to be managed in the NBA. David Blatt has some great knowledge that the world may never see because he has to cater to Lebron, Kyrie and Love. Point is, Casey is not perfect but that doesn't mean he sucks. For all we know, he could be completely relinquishing control of his offense to his Nurse, who may very well have come from the D-League to the NBA and been like "uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... Shoot more threes....?"

All that being said: I hate watching the brand of basketball we've been playing, not just lately, but for a while now. I like to see ball movement, open shots, inside looks, GOOD, fun, fundamental basketball. And we haven't seen that. Are there things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about? You better believe it. Is Casey going to be fired this season? Not a chance. But does that mean he'll be here for his whole contract? Not at all.

It's frustrating to watch, I totally agree. The general consensus seems to be that he is a stepping stone of a coach. Sure. But we need to stop calling criticism of Casey "hate". It's all valid. He's got strengths and weaknesses. At this point we're all just beating a dead horse (a dead horse, coincidentally, could currently beat us in a game of basketball, as we saw yesterday).

[big boi]

Ok, well I'm not responding exactly to this - if you literally only point to the record over and over, then yes, that's a little weird.

But a big point I, personally, have been trying to make is that this offense, which everyone is calling out as ugly and iso-centric (and rightly so) is actually effective.

It's beyond me to explain that, but it is. That's just a fact. It's a fact that any other argument has to work around

Fair enough. Yes, that's all I mean. If people solely point to the record and totally discount all other evidence or opinion. And I was only partially replying to you about JV. Just responded to one post on the subject in a thread of posts about JV. I think plenty of us can forget that JV is still very much a work in progress. So I do tend to have more patience with his mistakes or learning than I would for some other guys. Particularly when he keeps improving so much. Just this season his rebounding has improved so much and his post moves get better all the time. I know I'm preaching to the choir with a lot of people here

[stooley]

Can we have a group hug, guys?

[Mindlessness]

Can we have a group hug, guys?

Group hugs are for Casey-lovers. :P

[cinqueda]

Can we have a group hug, guys?

yeah, whatever our stance on the matter we're all here to enjoy or suffer the raptors together.

[cinqueda]

Group hugs are for Casey-lovers. :P

no casey-lovers only have 3 man hugs, no bigs allowed.

[psrs1]

Your criticism is a lack of elite athleticism.

He is a very effective player.

The eye test, stats, advanced stats all show it.

I agree re the eye test. He works hard consistently and is engaged in the game. He can turn the ball over when pressured and needs to improve in that area. His low post skills have improved and he rebounds well. He takes instruction from KL in stride. His role should be including more crush time minutes.

[psrs1]

yeah, whatever our stance on the matter we're all here to enjoy or suffer the raptors together.

The last two games have included intolerable suffering!!

[big boi]

I agree re the eye test. He works hard consistently and is engaged in the game. He can turn the ball over when pressured and needs to improve in that area. His low post skills have improved and he rebounds well. He takes instruction from KL in stride. His role should be including more crush time minutes.

He's just got bad habits wrt turnovers in the post. Like bringing the ball down below his waist before going back up, or bouncing the ball before going up and sometimes just showing too much of the ball. Just takes building good habits through practice, game time, repetition.

When boarding should keep ball up over his shoulders, go straight back up (never bringing it down below his waist with guards around). If he's going to dribble, it shouldn't be against a double team / pressure, and he should have his body between the defender and the ball. So if player is on his right with him facing the rim, one bounce with his left, at most, straight up strong (he does a decent job of shielding the ball when going for his right handed mini hook, but not with his left hand). And when making post moves the ball should be held firm. Some even do it under the chin or right agains the shoulder / collar bone.

I have a lot of confidence he'll learn better habits. It's no accident his rebounding is better now than the beginning of the year. He's learned better habits. He goes up and rips the ball now. He fights for position when the ball is in the air and holds position before the shot goes up. He also when gripping and ripping it will flare his elbows to warn little guards off from trying to strip him. He's become a very good rebounder, in one season, playing under 30 mins a game.

[DanH]

You know what makes me sad? On that rare instance where the team puts together some great ball movement, and creates a wide open three or layup after a half dozen passes, Devlin will, pretty much every time, yell out "Now that's Raptors basketball!"

And he's so excited, and he seems to think that that play was it, the dam is broken and finally the team will start playing pretty basketball again, how could they not? It was so pretty and so effective and made Matt feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and Jack is happy too, and Leo, and there are rainbows everywhere and all the veggies taste like candy. And I feel so bad for him, like a puppy in a pet store window that thinks every single kid is his new owner but never gets purchased.

And all I can think is "Matt, that hasn't been Raptors basketball for a very long time now."

[tDotted]

You know what makes me sad? On that rare instance where the team puts together some great ball movement, and creates a wide open three or layup after a half dozen passes, Devlin will, pretty much every time, yell out "Now that's Raptors basketball!"

And he's so excited, and he seems to think that that play was it, the dam is broken and finally the team will start playing pretty basketball again, how could they not? It was so pretty and so effective and made Matt feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and Jack is happy too, and Leo, and there are rainbows everywhere and all the veggies taste like candy. And I feel so bad for him, like a puppy in a pet store window that thinks every single kid is his new owner but never gets purchased.

And all I can think is "Matt, that hasn't been Raptors basketball for a very long time now."

underrated post

[mcHAPPY]

You know what makes me sad? On that rare instance where the team puts together some great ball movement, and creates a wide open three or layup after a half dozen passes, Devlin will, pretty much every time, yell out "Now that's Raptors basketball!"

And he's so excited, and he seems to think that that play was it, the dam is broken and finally the team will start playing pretty basketball again, how could they not? It was so pretty and so effective and made Matt feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and Jack is happy too, and Leo, and there are rainbows everywhere and all the veggies taste like candy. And I feel so bad for him, like a puppy in a pet store window that thinks every single kid is his new owner but never gets purchased.

And all I can think is "Matt, that hasn't been Raptors basketball for a very long time now."

Good post.

Those plays only cause more frustration because the Raptors do have talent and they do have the ability to play a much more efficient and effective style of basketball.

There is always the talk of building a program and culture but what program and culture are the Raptors building this season? Selfish, me first ISO offense combined with a scrambling, ineffective defense? There is nothing tough, grind it out, beat you up about this current team... overall. As Doc Rivers said, all the lip service to those type of attributes are a mirage.

So in summary, I'm not too sure what the point of this current season is as I am not seeing anything I hope to see the team carry over in to future seasons.

[SamMitchells]

It's obvious that everyone in the media, people at home even absolute laymen know good basketball when they see it.
ISO 3's look fuckinf sick wen they go in. Makes the guy look like a pro. But when they miss everyone including my family members who don't know jack say " why did he shoot that?"
Passing with plays leaving higher percentage shots is better basketball.
X's and O's

Can't wait for JV to get better with his handles and passing. With a better coach he'll be a monster