#FireCasey

[cinqueda]

Terrible shot selection leads to difficult positions on defence. This team has great offence players. Potentially the best in the league.
Obviously lack of adjustments makes a good defensive team ridiculously hard to play against. Just looks ugly as hell and it's ineffective.
Vs bad defences, our style of offence rocks because our personnel are ISO comfortable players, it's just not good in the long run through the playoffs. Especially without a lebron James leading it.

Sucks how we did well with JV sitting out most of the game. The defensive schemes don't work well for him.

this is it, long 2's and 3's early in the shot clock = long rebounds at a high pace = lots of points for us, far more for them and no room for JV in the line-up, also our defensive system is stupid, too trigger happy on help and expecting guys to run around like mad men while the opponent slowly passes the ball around.

[stooley]

It's not the lack of these things that make me feel casey is a bad coach, it's the repeated losing because of these things and nothing being changed,

Excuse me if I don't totally see what the difference is there.

again I admit Ross to the bench was a good move, although I disagree with vasquez to the starting line up, and I admit the clippers game was some good coaching post 1st quarter, and casey even got a tech the other game, not quite the way we wanted it but I'll take it anyway.

I think casey is a bad coach because he's to stubborn about things like running his crazy defence, not even trying out a lowry,derozan,johnson,patterson,valanciunas line up this far into the season, and he's not stubborn enough about sticking to his guns, JV is destroying a team but they went small? pull him immediately, don't wait to see if he can handle it just pull him, Vasquez was asked to guard tyreke and couldn't? keep playing him on players he isn't capable of guarding.

so yeah I think casey is a bad coach not because of the lack of these things, but because he doesn't learn, he doesn't play his statistically best line-ups, he doesn't keep his gunners in check quickly enough. Again he seems to be improving of late, but so did Ross and he's almost back to where he was :/

So, my knowledge of coaching an actual NBA team is extremely limited, as I would imagine yours is too. I can't get inside Casey's head and tell you why he's doing the things he is, but I can say, again, that the on court results are very promising.

My bet would be that every group of fans has complaints about these types of things from their coaches, and in my mind, a lot of that has to do with the fact that we know so little about what's going on.

I've repeatedly read from very good basketball writers (Lowe, Woj, etc.) that the most important traits in a coach are personnel management - communication, culture, etc. The way I see it is that we (fans) aren't wrong about our complaints, but that we are unaware of the many other factors in play, which may outweigh the benefit of doing things 'our' way.

That's why, in my mind, the best way to evaluate a coach is expectations vs. performance.

tl;dr

The criticisms on here our valid, but if we're seeing it, I can hella guarantee the coaching staff is and that there are probably other factors influencing decisions.

Edit: Ok I gotta clarify because I'm sure I'm gonna get jumped on for this -

No, the coach isn't always right, that's not what I'm saying.

[raptors999]

Excuse me if I don't totally see what the difference is there.



So, my knowledge of coaching an actual NBA team is extremely limited, as I would imagine yours is too. I can't get inside Casey's head and tell you why he's doing the things he is, but I can say, again, that the on court results are very promising.

My bet would be that every group of fans has complaints about these types of things from their coaches, and in my mind, a lot of that has to do with the fact that we know so little about what's going on.

I've repeatedly read from very good basketball writers (Lowe, Woj, etc.) that the most important traits in a coach are personnel management - communication, culture, etc. The way I see it is that we (fans) aren't wrong about our complaints, but that we are unaware of the many other factors in play, which may outweigh the benefit of doing things 'our' way.

That's why, in my mind, the best way to evaluate a coach is expectations vs. performance.

tl;dr

The criticisms on here our valid, but if we're seeing it, I can hella guarantee the coaching staff is and that there are probably other factors influencing decisions.

Edit: Ok I gotta clarify because I'm sure I'm gonna get jumped on for this -

No, the coach isn't always right, that's not what I'm saying.

Personnel management is an expectation not a reason to be kept as coach. Coaches that lose the locker room are usually fired. Coaches lose locker rooms when they can't be counted on to game plan. Nobody follows an idiot and tunes them out.

[stooley]

Personnel management is an expectation not a reason to be kept as coach. Coaches that lose the locker room are usually fired. Coaches lose locker rooms when they can't be counted on to game plan. Nobody follows an idiot and tunes them out.

Ok I'm going to clarify this for you once -

I'm not saying personnel management is all that matters. What I'm saying is that there are a multitude of factors that affect a coach's decision making - most of which we aren't aware of.

So when I sit on my couch and wonder, "why the hell wouldn't Casey do X?!", odds are there's a reason. Whether that reason is the right one or not is what makes a good coach.

[raptors999]

Ok I'm going to clarify this for you once -

I'm not saying personnel management is all that matters. What I'm saying is that there are a multitude of factors that affect a coach's decision making - most of which we aren't aware of.

So when I sit on my couch and wonder, "why the hell wouldn't Casey do X?!", odds are there's a reason. Whether that reason is the right one or not is what makes a good coach.

That's speculation. By that logic every terrible coach had a reason prior to being let go. Sometimes coaches just aren't good. The simplest explanation is usually correct. A stupid gameplan exists because stupidity created it, not a hidden secret special strategy that takes a super genius to decipher.

[stooley]

That's speculation. By that logic every terrible coach had a reason prior to being let go. Sometimes coaches just aren't good. The simplest explanation is usually correct. A stupid gameplan exists because stupidity created it, not a hidden secret special strategy that takes a super genius to decipher.

You don't seem to be understanding me - I don't want to have to hold your hand through this one like I did in the James Johnson thread, it just distracts from the point I was trying to make.

[raptors999]

You don't seem to be understanding me - I don't want to have to hold your hand through this one like I did in the James Johnson thread, it just distracts from the point I was trying to make.

James Johnson trying to shoot threes is stupid. He went 7-7 on the interior which is his job. Watch Blake Griffin and see what happen when forwards start drifting outside. Casey not being good at X-O is not the issues, few coaches are great strategists. Bad coach allow team to become imbalanced. Poor defense, low assists, too much chucking, not enough driving or going inside. This isnt strategy its game planning. No decent coach should ever be bottom half in offense or defense.

[Mediumcore]

It's true.

Many people, myself included, have a general philosophical and aesthetic disdain for iso-ball. This is what it comes down to.

This morning I've been thinking, though, that we might actually be in good shape for the playoffs. Goes back to what that Raps' stat guy said about assist rate not being tied to success in the playoffs. Scoring becomes very hard then, once teams have had time to scout you out and really hone in on your sets. There's great value to having players who can make reasonable shots out of nothing. Ugly as it can be at times, Lowry, DD, Lou, and even Vasquez can do this well. Most teams don't have as many players who are as effective at this. We probably have a huge advantage here.

Question is, to what degree will this advantage be trumped by Casey's inability to get the right players on the floor at the right times.

So it took you half a season to have an epiphany that what Casey was doing all along was playing to the rosters strengths. Why not give him credit and trust he will get the right players out there at the right time instead of trashing him for another half season before the next epiphany? I don't mean that in a negative way towards you or anyone else, but it just seems like even when there is a realization what he was doing may have been right that you still feel the need to throw in an insult. It's like its a personal hatred towards him so he can never win.

[JimiCliff]

So it took you half a season to have an epiphany that what Casey was doing all along was playing to the rosters strengths. Why not give him credit and trust he will get the right players out there at the right time instead of trashing him for another half season before the next epiphany? I don't mean that in a negative way towards you or anyone else, but it just seems like even when there is a realization what he was doing may have been right that you still feel the need to throw in an insult. It's like its a personal hatred towards him so he can never win.

My 'epiphany' had to do with Masai's architecture of the roster, not what Casey's been doing with it. My 'epiphany' wasn't about whether he was playing to roster strengths, but about whether this roster has been designed to feature a style of play that certain types of basketball fans, myself included, tend to undervalue (if not outright despise). Read more closely next time.

Lol, I have no 'hatred' towards Casey. But I'll have serious doubts about his abilities to strategize in-game...forever, probably. There's more than enough indisputable evidence to show that this is a problem.

[cinqueda]

Excuse me if I don't totally see what the difference is there.



So, my knowledge of coaching an actual NBA team is extremely limited, as I would imagine yours is too. I can't get inside Casey's head and tell you why he's doing the things he is, but I can say, again, that the on court results are very promising.

My bet would be that every group of fans has complaints about these types of things from their coaches, and in my mind, a lot of that has to do with the fact that we know so little about what's going on.

I've repeatedly read from very good basketball writers (Lowe, Woj, etc.) that the most important traits in a coach are personnel management - communication, culture, etc. The way I see it is that we (fans) aren't wrong about our complaints, but that we are unaware of the many other factors in play, which may outweigh the benefit of doing things 'our' way.

That's why, in my mind, the best way to evaluate a coach is expectations vs. performance.

tl;dr

The criticisms on here our valid, but if we're seeing it, I can hella guarantee the coaching staff is and that there are probably other factors influencing decisions.

Edit: Ok I gotta clarify because I'm sure I'm gonna get jumped on for this -

No, the coach isn't always right, that's not what I'm saying.

you're correct in that my coaching knowledge is limited, OK yes, Casey has done well with team chemistry and intensity, rotations are slowly getting there too. I don't know what casey's thoughts are, if we're going by expectation vs performance, then Casey's done well, and I'm sure it's difficult to keep a happy locker room when 3 guys can do whatever they want and two get yanked for the tiniest mistake. raptors are pretty closed organization sure we have cool stuff like open gym, but we don't hear trade rumours from our side, we don't here about locker room problems and are left to speculate about things like JJ's lack of playing time and tweets.

Casey is doing fine for record, and I'm happy to ride him out for the season, but if he continues to lose games in the same manner he does, (I don't mind losing games, just not the same way over and over) and refuses to adjust, even the excuses for losses are the same over and over, although nba interviews are always pretty cliche from any coach/player so that points a bit unfair

the difference between what? making mistakes and adjusting/experimenting and making mistakes then making the same mistake and expecting a better result? it's that I don't mind that he didn't do the things we say, I mind that he didn't try anything, and even when he did he usually reverted after anyway. I'm waiting to the next game, if we continue like we did against the clips I'll honestly be happy with Casey.

[big boi]

That's speculation. By that logic every terrible coach had a reason prior to being let go. Sometimes coaches just aren't good. The simplest explanation is usually correct. A stupid gameplan exists because stupidity created it, not a hidden secret special strategy that takes a super genius to decipher.

Casey's obviously not stupid. He's a good basketball coach who has probably forgot more about basketball than most of us will ever know. But, he may have taken this team as far as he can. I don't think he's the coach to take us to the promised land, and the last couple of months the continuity rationale for keeping him on hasn't held up. For many games it looked like we'd regressed. For the sake of stability, I can understand Casey finishing the season... As long as we're not regressing, as long as he's not totally losing the dressing room. (I wonder if his treatment of JJ was unpopular with some players)

But I do believe we should be actively trying to recruit a better coach to take us to the next level. Casey's been around forever, he'll always find work in the nba as an assistant, but I think he's more suited to helping a team be competitive, as he did in Minnesota, than helping a competitive team be a contender or a contending team a champion.

[raptors999]

Based on...

[stooley]

But I do believe we should be actively trying to recruit a better coach to take us to the next level. Casey's been around forever, he'll always find work in the nba as an assistant, but I think he's more suited to helping a team be competitive, as he did in Minnesota, than helping a competitive team be a contender or a contending team a champion.

That's probably a good point. He's not a top tier coach, no doubt.

[stooley]

the difference between what? making mistakes and adjusting/experimenting and making mistakes then making the same mistake and expecting a better result? it's that I don't mind that he didn't do the things we say, I mind that he didn't try anything, and even when he did he usually reverted after anyway. I'm waiting to the next game, if we continue like we did against the clips I'll honestly be happy with Casey.

yeah kind of - in my mind, there's something to be said for providing consistency on a nightly basis

the good and the bad are kind of the result of the same process right? when you start tinkering trying to fix the bad it's not out of the question that you mess up the good. but again, casey's certainly not the world's best coach - I'm sure he could do a lot of things better

eh i didn't phrase that well...

[cinqueda]

yeah kind of - in my mind, there's something to be said for providing consistency on a nightly basis

the good and the bad are kind of the result of the same process right? when you start tinkering trying to fix the bad it's not out of the question that you mess up the good. but again, casey's certainly not the world's best coach - I'm sure he could do a lot of things better

eh i didn't phrase that well...

Consistency good, and if you're looking at early season and record despite the fact we played iso ball, we did do well, and maybe casey was scared to mess with what seemed to work, but again clippers game looked like it could be a sign of good things to come, I don't know where casey sits on the coaching ladder, I don't think he's great but I do think he's better than someone like scott brooks.and the players do seem to trust him which is important. have to see in playoffs, that's when coaching becomes really apparent.