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  • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
    For all that ramble you're still missing the point but let me spell it out for you AGAIN....this isn't about comparing individual players as in the starters abilities versus the bench. It is the bench's ability to step in without their being significant drop off in the level of play of the team (get it??) which there isn't versus ours where there is.

    If you try to define depth by your standards of where you're listing accomplishments (ie/ all-star selections, being on route to the HOF) there wouldn't be a bench in the league that would be deep lol

    It's really not that hard to understand, that's what's really hard to believe.
    You talking about the Raptors, who have had an elite performing bench group for three straight years now? What?

    Raps have ranked 2nd, 2nd and 3rd in bench net rating the past three seasons. Spurs have ranked 3rd, 1st and 1st. Frankly, of every team in the league, the Raps are the closest to the Spurs in terms of having bench players perform in the lineups they are used in, complementing the starters they play with and stepping up when injuries happen. The drop off from Lowry is the one area the Raps can't match the Spurs in, but that's one player.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • James Johnson, whom I'm a fan of, regularly took as much off the table as he put on it while with the Raptors. He'd do things like score a beautiful post up basket then jog back on D, completely lose his man in transition, and give up an uncontested layup. Then he'd get benched.

      He had some nice games in Toronto and Memphis, always capable of putting up multiple numbers in pts/reb/ast/stl/blks, only two main differences now: he's developed a 3 pt shot this year (huge) and Miami has such a thin roster they need him for 26 minutes a night in a way that Toronto or Memphis never did.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post
        James Johnson, whom I'm a fan of, regularly took as much off the table as he put on it while with the Raptors. He'd do things like score a beautiful post up basket then jog back on D, completely lose his man in transition, and give up an uncontested layup. Then he'd get benched.

        He had some nice games in Toronto and Memphis, always capable of putting up multiple numbers in pts/reb/ast/stl/blks, only two main differences now: he's developed a 3 pt shot this year (huge) and Miami has such a thin roster they need him for 26 minutes a night in a way that Toronto or Memphis never did.
        Our starting SF was injured or hurt all of last year and is under performing this year, so the need for JJ was and still is significant. Looking at how JJ's performing this year, you have to look at him as a missed opportunity and mis-managed talent development by the Raps.

        The difference in JJ is probably more related to our system prioritizing development of Lowry & DD, with all the other players having to learn how to improvise off Lowry/DD's strengths and weaknesses vs. playing within a structured system. Some guys, like Carroll, still haven't "fit in" with Lowry and DD. Even JV hasn't fully. That, and likely some pretty serious personal baggage between Casey and JJ that could never get resolved.

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        • Cool new poll

          It's really both. Casey can hurt you, but it's also a slump.

          Since its one or the other, I'll have to go with slump. Casey's ride or die, hell or highwater, empty that clip approach did still get us to the ECF last year. And that's still fresh in my memory despite how they've been playing this year. I'm concerned but I'm concerned over all and its not just about him and his coaching. Will stick with slump since it's easier to fix that then the coach. I guess I'm just feeling optimistic.

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          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            You were talking about drop off. Well if there is a significant drop off in talent level but not performance, that's not depth of talent, that's knowing how to use depth. That's what I'm arguing, so I'm really not convinced I'm the one missing the point here, but rather you don't know how to make your own argument. I counter that they bleed talent by a significant margin at nearly every position when they go to the bench, suddenly your tune focuses on the "level of team play", which again, if the team is losing talent by a wide margin, means it has little to do with how talented their bench is relative to their starters, but the ability to maximize even players with limited talents. Depth is about talent. If you say a team is deep, it means there is not a significant talent gap between their players.

            So you need to make up your damn mind as to what you're talking about, because if it's depth saving them, it implies any coach could utilize that depth with success, and I have a hard time seeing a coach utilize all these guys as successfully off the bench, never mind when they rest starters and still perform at an elite level as a team. If it's about how well they play as a team, it has everything to do with coaching/system, which is what I've been arguing from the start.

            **I re-post your messsage here which literally goes through part of their depth chart citing subs at each spot as if there is no difference in what you get from the players.
            *sigh*

            You're not serious with your definition of depth are you?! lol

            I won't try explaining this to you again but rather get you use your own supposed "logic" then...

            In what world do you see a good NBA team where the majority (since it's about being a deep team) of players on their bench that have talent levels near their starters?! I'll tell you now you're going to be hard pressed to find a team that has all-stars where their bench has near/borderline all-stars coming off the bench lol but hey maybe you know of a few...please list the rosters and compare the accomplishments of the starters to the bench as you did with the Spurs. I'll wait....

            Also are you saying then the Spurs aren't deep and don't have a good bench???

            Please answer the questions directly and don't tip toe around them.
            Last edited by JamesNaismith; Sat Feb 11, 2017, 03:16 PM.

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            • re: the poll, i'm not "concerned" it will hurt us. I'm convinced it will.

              And it's not based on the recent stretch, but the repetition of the same stupidity over and over and over again. This year's team is capable of being at least just as good as, and actually much better than, last years team. but not when coached by dwane casey.
              Last edited by KHD; Sat Feb 11, 2017, 02:52 PM.

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              • KHD wrote: View Post
                re: the poll, i'm not "concerned" it will hurt us. I'm convinced it will.

                And it's not based on the recent stretch, but the repetition of the same stupidity over and over and over again. This year's team is capable of being at least just as good as, and actually much better than, last years team. but not when coached by dwane casey.
                To be honest I actually don't think this team is better than last year's. They are better than what they are showing yes and if they were bettered coached yes they would be doing better than what they are but if we forget about pointing out Biz's contract every time his name is mentioned the fact is we do sorely miss his defence and rebounding and JJ/Ross was better at SF than this corpse of Carroll. We haven't replaced that interior defence and rebounding off the bench and we've increased the role of a really bad player in DC. Heck even Scola was nailing 3s through the regular season and this year Pat has struggled with health and consistency while Siakam has little to no impact on the court.
                Last edited by JamesNaismith; Sat Feb 11, 2017, 03:05 PM.

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                • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                  *sigh*

                  You're not serious with your definition of depth are you?! lol

                  I won't try explaining this to you again but rather get you use your own supposed "logic" then...

                  In what world do you see a good NBA team where the majority (since it's about being a deep team) of players on their bench that have talent levels near their starters?! I'll tell you now you're going to be hard pressed to find a team that has all-stars where their bench has near/borderline all-stars coming off the bench lol but hey maybe you know of a few...please list the rosters and compare the accomplishments of the starters to the bench as you did with the Spurs. I'll wait....

                  Also are you saying then the Spurs aren't deep and don't have a good bench???

                  Please answer the questions directly and don't tip toe around them.
                  No i dont care about answering your trolling questions. You are avoiding acknowledging any point i make to avoid admitting what you said made no sense at all. Get a clue.

                  Again, you made references to their specific players when talking about drop off. Everybody in the basketball world thinks when you say depth it refers to talent. It appears you did too til it was pointed out that made no sense with the example you gave. **hint: that's why a "depth chart" lists what? Oh right, players at each position.

                  So yeah, im done. Have fun. Now that i think of it didnt you say you were banned on realgm? That's basically enough to prove you dont deserve to be listened to since it's the worst basketball forum in the world.

                  Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Feb 11, 2017, 03:49 PM.

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                  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    No i dont care about answering your trolling questions. You are avoiding acknowledging any point i make to avoid admitting what you said made no sense at all. Get a clue.

                    Again, you made references to their specific players when talking about drop off. Everybody in the basketball world thinks when you say depth it refers to talent. It appears you did too til it was pointed out that made no sense with the example you gave. **hint: that's why a "depth chart" lists what? Oh right, players at each position.

                    So yeah, im done. Have fun. Now that i think of it didnt you say you were banned on realgm? That's basically enough to prove you dont deserve to be listened to since it's the worst basketball forum in the world.

                    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                    You won't answer the questions because they expose the weak "logic" you used.

                    Everything else you went on to blab about is just the usual tip toeing around when I ask you for direct answers. Try to throw personal shots all you want, your "logic" failed you so yeah it's best you keep moving along.

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                    • KHD wrote: View Post
                      re: the poll, i'm not "concerned" it will hurt us. I'm convinced it will.

                      And it's not based on the recent stretch, but the repetition of the same stupidity over and over and over again. This year's team is capable of being at least just as good as, and actually much better than, last years team. but not when coached by dwane casey.
                      This team is not better than last year. They are better offensively but worse defensively. Depends which one you rather more.

                      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                        This team is not better than last year. They are better offensively but worse defensively. Depends which one you rather more.

                        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                        They aren't better offensively.

                        They were just playing god mode like in the first half of the season. That translated to poor defensive habits.

                        I don't think the fault is of Casey. His team last year was on the cusp of top 10 defensively, and top 5 offensively. Personnel changed this year, and regression hit like crazy.

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                        • mjt20mik wrote: View Post
                          They aren't better offensively.

                          They were just playing god mode like in the first half of the season. That translated to poor defensive habits.

                          I don't think the fault is of Casey. His team last year was on the cusp of top 10 defensively, and top 5 offensively. Personnel changed this year, and regression hit like crazy.
                          Lowry/Deebo are better this year offensively. I would say they are better on O. They've looked worse recently but, That's cause Deebo and 2pat have been in and out. Raptors margin for error is very small. Which leads back to the talent level of this team.

                          I agree with rest though.

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                          Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Sat Feb 11, 2017, 05:30 PM.
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Lowry/Deebo are better this year offensively. I would say they are better on O. They've looked worse recently but, That's cause Deebo and 2pat have been in and out. Raptors margin for error is very small. Which leads back to the talent level of this team.

                            I agree with rest though.

                            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                            Okay my thoughts mirror yours. But I do think this year they are being asked to do more which is why we have regressed recently. I have no explanation for defensive because that is solely based on how much the players want it.

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                            • mjt20mik wrote: View Post
                              Okay my thoughts mirror yours. But I do think this year they are being asked to do more which is why we have regressed recently. I have no explanation for defensive because that is solely based on how much the players want it.
                              To me the D has to do with the lack of communication, experience and Biz. When 2pat is out none of the other bigs are not vocal. Which is crucial.

                              Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                To me the D has to do with the lack of communication, experience and Biz. When 2pat is out none of the other bigs are not vocal. Which is crucial.

                                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                                I also think our guards are terrible. A lot of the pressure falls on our bigs because our guards get blown by so damn easily. Reason why we suck at rebounding as well.

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