#FireCasey

[ball4life]

#FireCasey

ISO isn't the main reason why we are stinking up. Our problem is running Isos for a player that can't quite dribble create his own shot, or shoot to dribble create his own shot and shoot.

And running those in huge doses doesn't help. Replace Demar with Harden and run the same sets with a few more post up inside and we won't be complaining this much about the design of the offence.

But I do agree if we don't have skilled players then we should do the drive and kick swing share and find te open man basketball.

[GLF]

All four other guys also need to move to help passing. Casey just parks guys in spots to spread the floor for Lowry or Demar to try to create. It isn't just the ball handler everyone on the team is playing ISO

Very true. This is just so sad. I really did believe in this team early on. This is why I am always so negative and paranoid because Raptors always have to fuck up in some way. When things are going to good I know something bad is going to end up happening at some point. That's just how this organization has always been.

[Bendit]

In Weltman's defense, he also mentions scoring in the paint and it's not clear if he is in favour of iso being an entire game, another element or end of game offense play calls. The Raptors are loathe to use their bigs in the paint it seems

I find it hard to believe that in the absence of the great iso talents on the team anyone would seriously consider this to be a tactical plus in of itself. Even if we had a Rudy Gay....er never mind.

Someone should get him to restate that position again.

[mcHAPPY]

I recall an article where Ujiri talked about building his team around what the coach wanted. He did it in Denver with Karl and I believe he has done it in Toronto.

I pray pray pray pray pray this is what has happened this season in Toronto. I can't believe that the front office would build a team this way.

Masai inherited his coach in Denver and he inherited his coach in Toronto. If Casey is let go after this season, might we start to see a team built, starting with the hiring of a coach, that resembles what Masai thinks is how basketball is supposed to be played?

Maybe? Please? I'm really grasping at straws here.

And yet again with the disclaimer that I am not presenting the above as fact rather just my speculation.

[stooley]

We lucked out and got to play the 20th worst defense in the NBA last year. That's why a small sample size isn't that useful. Hell if we only maintained our offense at the same rate against the 20th worst defense we probably didn't do that great anyway.

Yes, I agree. I was kind of simplifying the argument. Just so you know where I'm coming from:

No worries man, if the difference in OffRtg pre and post Gay translates somewhat similarly to ORTG (so 6 points), then the Raps probably had a bout a 110 ORTG in the regular season after the Gay trade.

A more significant factor than that though is probably that Brooklyn was a slightly below average defensive team last year (but that may also have gotten better after Lopez went down after 17 games and improved as a new team and coach gelled).

But then there's also the Raptors' inexperience in the playoffs as a group which may have been a factor in dragging down their offense.

All in all though, I'd say it was a pretty similar performance offensively from regular season to the playoffs (not in process (god those double teams on DD...) but in results)

I'm not at all trying to say that I'm 100% confident that the style won't bog down in the playoffs, just that it's not necessarily a given.

I really haven't seen any convincing arguments - statistically or otherwise that ISO offenses slow down more in the playoffs than offenses with good ball movement.

Weltman's on to something. Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, etc... How could you argue with that playoff success?

Bang up job on those analytics, boys.

I'd imagine they're looking at more than just straight up success in the playoffs. What you'd be looking for is change between regular season and playoff performance (and then go a couple steps further). I'm sure they've considered this.

[consmap]

I recall an article where Ujiri talked about building his team around what the coach wanted. He did it in Denver with Karl and I believe he has done it in Toronto.

I pray pray pray pray pray this is what has happened this season in Toronto. I can't believe that the front office would build a team this way.

Masai inherited his coach in Denver and he inherited his coach in Toronto. If Casey is let go after this season, might we start to see a team built, starting with the hiring of a coach, that resembles what Masai thinks is how basketball is supposed to be played?

Maybe? Please? I'm really grasping at straws here.

And yet again with the disclaimer that I am not presenting the above as fact rather just my speculation.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you have to put this at the end of your posts.

NO mcHAPPY! You think everything you say is fact!!!

[Scraptor]

In Weltman's defense, he also mentions scoring in the paint and it's not clear if he is in favour of iso being an entire game, another element or end of game offense play calls. The Raptors are loathe to use their bigs in the paint it seems

I find it hard to believe that in the absence of the great iso talents on the team anyone would seriously consider this to be a tactical plus in of itself. Even if we had a Rudy Gay....er never mind.

Someone should get him to restate that position again.

Yep. Reading the following makes you think this is bigger than coaching and more of an organizational mindset. Again, surprised this hasn't been a bigger point of emphasis given all the heat Casey has been taking.

.@BobMackowycz asked Jeff Weltman (Raps exec. VP) about JV sitting at the end of games. Here's what he had to say: pic.twitter.com/WzPCntmlql

— Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) February 4, 2015

[Bendit]

I recall an article where Ujiri talked about building his team around what the coach wanted. He did it in Denver with Karl and I believe he has done it in Toronto.

I pray pray pray pray pray this is what has happened this season in Toronto. I can't believe that the front office would build a team this way.

Masai inherited his coach in Denver and he inherited his coach in Toronto. If Casey is let go after this season, might we start to see a team built, starting with the hiring of a coach, that resembles what Masai thinks is how basketball is supposed to be played?

Maybe? Please? I'm really grasping at straws here.

And yet again with the disclaimer that I am not presenting the above as fact rather just my speculation.

If I were to accept that/your premise then Masai accepted Casey's instincts over a more vibrant pass-based/screen/horns and indeed some situational iso offense. He gave him an extension. Maybe he did it for the stabilizing job DC did and his media handling (which is getting old now).

What is baffling to me is how the team played after Gay left and beginning of this season. Actually, thinking back, coming down to the playoffs last year the team was beginning to gravitate back to the iso style and now is full blown to the style when Gay was here. Maybe it wasnt just him! He was doing what he was told and encouraged. Him getting traded liberated the team....for a short while. Feel free to choose a conspiracy theory here when they were yanked back.

The system worked when Lowry was making those long bombs and DD had a decent mix to his game. Not sustainable it would seem.

Wonder if MU has had that talk with DC & the team.

[DDelight]

The style of play the team is playing is because of Casey. The reason we keep missing shots is because of the players. If our style of play was smart and was suitable to our personnel but we were just missing shots, then I have no issue with Casey. But our style of play sucks. Regardless of whether we have a "hot-shooting" night or not.

For a while, people would say stop blaming Casey, its the players out there. But with Casey clearly having no issue with the way our offense is structured, the problem is him. Masai needs to find a replacement if we get eliminated out of the first round. If we start next season still playing like this even with a new coach, then he needs to start considering what needs to happen with DeMar.

I also hope he doesn't keep Lou and finds other ways to boost our bench. Lou plays a style of play that only encourages this iso-heavy selfish play. It's no wonder Atlanta got rid of him for John Salmons. Lou could not play the team style Atlanta is.

[3inthekeon]

Wonder if MU has had that talk with DC & the team.

I would guess MU talks to Casey pretty well every day, sometimes multiple times a day. If MU has a problem with big picture things, Casey would have heard it long ago.

[Bendit]

Yep. Reading the following makes you think this is bigger than coaching and more of an organizational mindset. Again, surprised this hasn't been a bigger point of emphasis given all the heat Casey has been taking.

No doubt. MU made changes to the org to flatten it and run a tight ship to make constant interaction part of the mindset.

Jonas's explanation was much more expansive and cogent. His comment on the iso/playoff strategy is limited I feel. One is dealing with how the entire team's playing philosophy is handled rather than a single player for whom there are fallback options. There has to be either an in game adjustment of players or plays when stuff is not happenning (its now reached 5 straight losses and many wins achieved inspite of). DC doesnt do this...is he really straight jacketed from adjusting ?

Casey bought into whatever it is the mgmt team agreed upon. He has to take ownership.

[Just Is]

This "system" only appeared to work before because of Lowry. When the fatigue finally caught up to Lowry (during the Nuggets game where, whenever he didn't have the ball, you could tell how tired the man actually was), the "system" fell apart. Lowry started to make the wrong basketball decisions, not because he's a dumb player or has low BB IQ, but because he just didn't have the energy he had to be for and knew it was ultimately on him.

When Lowry's play went down, everyone's else did as well since he actually DOES make the rest of the roster better.

Casey absolutely needs to be gone in the off-season. I'd say now and let one of the assistants run the team in the mean time, but you might as well let him see it out. I do find it very interesting that Washington is going through pretty much the same thing as us right now.

[golden]

This "system" only appeared to work before because of Lowry. When the fatigue finally caught up to Lowry (during the Nuggets game where, whenever he didn't have the ball, you could tell how tired the man actually was), the "system" fell apart. Lowry started to make the wrong basketball decisions, not because he's a dumb player or has low BB IQ, but because he just didn't have the energy he had to be for and knew it was ultimately on him.

When Lowry's play went down, everyone's else did as well since he actually DOES make the rest of the roster better.

Casey absolutely needs to be gone in the off-season. I'd say now and let one of the assistants run the team in the mean time, but you might as well let him see it out. I do find it very interesting that Washington is going through pretty much the same thing as us right now.

The 'Lowry is fatigued' hypothesis actually makes some sense. It could also explain why the defense has been slipping, as Lowry is being asked to be superman on offense, so he's got to conserve himself on defense, which starts the defense scrambling immediately. Backup point guards like DJ Augustin and Jarrett Jack have been going off for career highs against Lowry, who supposedly had a great defensive rep, so again, the 'fatigue' excuse seems plausible.

[Bendit]

I would guess MU talks to Casey pretty well every day, sometimes multiple times a day. If MU has a problem with big picture things, Casey would have heard it long ago.

Yes. Should have used the sarc font there.

[DogeLover1234]

The 'Lowry is fatigued' hypothesis actually makes some sense. It could also explain why the defense has been slipping, as Lowry is being asked to be superman on offense, so he's got to conserve himself on defense, which starts the defense scrambling immediately. Backup point guards like DJ Augustin and Jarrett Jack have been going off for career highs against Lowry, who supposedly had a great defensive rep, so again, the 'fatigue' excuse seems plausible.

The thing i don't get is that he just a huge break in the all star weekend. He played a little in the game and the skills comp, but i mean he still had many days off.