#FireCasey

[S.R.]

You've started the post stating you don't know why they've slipped then you stated it is due to a lack of effort and lockerroom issues.

You're entitled to your opinion but I can't figure out how it would be anything near fact. Not a single one of us can speak to the dynamics of that lockerroom. I've been a part of lockerrooms but never NBA lockerrooms. I don't know what goes on and am not going to pretend I do. I respect your opinion though - as valid as any, maybe more so.

My opinions are based what I am seeing on the court. The game plan and strategy is devised by the coaches. It is the job of the players to carry it out. I lay fault on casey because:
1) the game plan and strategy is flawed, it rarely changes, and the team is predictable. Opposing teams know what they are going to run into game after game. That is on Casey.
2) assuming the game plan is not flawed we run into two more issues:
A) there is a lack of accountability and the inmates/players are running the asylum - that is on the coach,
B) the players are incapable of performing the gameplan and strategy therefore the coach is not adapting to what he has and maximizing the roster - fault again with coach.

Casey has done a lot of good in toronto but his time has run its course. He is not a coach for torontor next step.

I definitely agree they are still a year or two away but they are going to need another coach to get them there. If you watch the games and think the team is well coached we will likely never agree on the topic. No biggie.

You know what's crazy? Last year and this year, in terms of pure W/L and a playoff appearance, are still the best Raptors performances since the 2000-01 Vince Carter team. Look at all these flaws in the on-court product, and this team is still outperforming any Bryan Colangelo, Sam Mitchell, Jay Triano, or Chris Bosh team. Fans (myself included) defended BC and Triano several of those seasons, even though those teams were a touch less productive than this one. That this team is doing more than Chris Bosh ever could while all these glaring flaws exist means quite a bit, imho. I really think a solid turnaround is within reach.

[golden]

You've started the post stating you don't know why they've slipped then you stated it is due to a lack of effort and lockerroom issues.

You're entitled to your opinion but I can't figure out how it would be anything near fact. Not a single one of us can speak to the dynamics of that lockerroom. I've been a part of lockerrooms but never NBA lockerrooms. I don't know what goes on and am not going to pretend I do. I respect your opinion though - as valid as any, maybe more so.

My opinions are based what I am seeing on the court. The game plan and strategy is devised by the coaches. It is the job of the players to carry it out. I lay fault on casey because:
1) the game plan and strategy is flawed, it rarely changes, and the team is predictable. Opposing teams know what they are going to run into game after game. That is on Casey.
2) assuming the game plan is not flawed we run into two more issues:
A) there is a lack of accountability and the inmates/players are running the asylum - that is on the coach,
B) the players are incapable of performing the gameplan and strategy therefore the coach is not adapting to what he has and maximizing the roster - fault again with coach.

Casey has done a lot of good in toronto but his time has run its course. He is not a coach for torontor next step.

I definitely agree they are still a year or two away but they are going to need another coach to get them there. If you watch the games and think the team is well coached we will likely never agree on the topic. No biggie.

Kind of agree with Superjudge on this one. I suspect the recent problems with this team are like 50% player leadership (Lowry/DD) and 50% coaching staff. And I do believe that some of that is related to motivation, effort and energy. Think about it from Lowry's point of view. He's in the first year of a 4 year contract. This Raps team had a playoff spot locked up by Xmas and the only thing to play for was an individual all-star spot. The only thing left to prove is to erase the memory of the last year's final shot fail in game 7. The whole team looks like they're just playing out the string.

From the coaching side: Casey's schemes are pretty demanding on Lowry on both sides of the court. He's got to single-handedly create offense against double and triple teams, while getting his teammates involved and still be able to fly around the perimeter on defense and then take over in the 4th quarter, if necessary. Pretty demanding energy requirements for a grueling 82 game schedule for the smallest guy on the court. I think that's why you're seeing more teams proactively resting star players down the stretch.

I have no idea how difficult it is to keep professional athletes motivated over a long season, but I'm guessing that's a pretty challenging task.

[RandomGuy]

You know what's crazy? Last year and this year, in terms of pure W/L and a playoff appearance, are still the best Raptors performances since the 2000-01 Vince Carter team. Look at all these flaws in the on-court product, and this team is still outperforming any Bryan Colangelo, Sam Mitchell, Jay Triano, or Chris Bosh team. Fans (myself included) defended BC and Triano several of those seasons, even though those teams were a touch less productive than this one. That this team is doing more than Chris Bosh ever could while all these glaring flaws exist means quite a bit, imho. I really think a solid turnaround is within reach.

There's nothing crazy really, the only crazy thing is how much East sucks these past two years. Im not sure if any long time NBA fan can recall a season, when East was that bad.

[psrs1]

Super judge good post. Players do have to take more responsibility. KL seems to be distrusting a little less this year and shooting a few too many ill advised jumpers.

[psrs1]

Super judge good post. Players do have to take more responsibility. KL seems to be distrusting a little less this year and shooting a few too many ill advised jumpers.

Distributing not distrusting.

[mcHAPPY]

Kind of agree with Superjudge on this one. I suspect the recent problems with this team are like 50% player leadership (Lowry/DD) and 50% coaching staff. And I do believe that some of that is related to motivation, effort and energy. Think about it from Lowry's point of view. He's in the first year of a 4 year contract. This Raps team had a playoff spot locked up by Xmas and the only thing to play for was an individual all-star spot. The only thing left to prove is to erase the memory of the last year's final shot fail in game 7. The whole team looks like they're just playing out the string.

From the coaching side: Casey's schemes are pretty demanding on Lowry on both sides of the court. He's got to single-handedly create offense against double and triple teams, while getting his teammates involved and still be able to fly around the perimeter on defense and then take over in the 4th quarter, if necessary. Pretty demanding energy requirements for a grueling 82 game schedule for the smallest guy on the court. I think that's why you're seeing more teams proactively resting star players down the stretch.

I have no idea how difficult it is to keep professional athletes motivated over a long season, but I'm guessing that's a pretty challenging task.

Is it possible the effort has dropped off due to:

...disillusionment?
...A realization the plan is weak?
...The strategies are known?
...A sense of hopelessness that they keep pounding the same rock with a feather expecting it to magically break?


Is it possible there is a lack of effort due to frustration caused by:

...a lack of accountability?
...pigeon holed roles?
...poor team play?
...double standards?



If I was on that team and not one of the favoured sons or chosen ones, I'd be pretty pissed off too.


I can't watch these games and think the root cause of the glaring problems is screaming "GO! GO! GO!" on the sidelines on every change of possession.

[Superjudge]

We all have opinions.... I just try to keep mine practical

[JimiCliff]

Is it possible the effort has dropped off due to:

...disillusionment?
...A realization the plan is weak?
...The strategies are known?
...A sense of hopelessness that they keep pounding the same rock with a feather expecting it to magically break?


Is it possible there is a lack of effort due to frustration caused by:

...a lack of accountability?
...pigeon holed roles?
...poor team play?
...double standards?



If I was on that team and not one of the favoured sons or chosen ones, I'd be pretty pissed off too.


I can't watch these games and think the root cause of the glaring problems is screaming "GO! GO! GO!" on the sidelines on every change of possession.

It really tells you all you need to know

Had my spidey sense tingling right from day one

[S.R.]

We all have opinions.... I just try to keep mine practical

Eh, I have to disagree. I number of arguments about the offensive and defensive systems in place and the usage of particular players is very practical - the same "evidence" is observable to everyone on the court and we can all argue about how to interpret it and what to do about it. Speculating about what may or may not be happening in the locker room and what may or may not be happening re: players' internal motivation and thought process...that's pure speculation. There's no Michael Beasley/JR Smith/Gilbert Arenas info coming out of the Raps locker room.

[mcHAPPY]

We all have opinions.... I just try to keep mine practical

Well there is the root of the difference of opinions.

I don't think it is practical to speculate on what might be happening behind the scenes with interpersonal relationships and team leadership within the ranks of players.

To be extremely critical of the on court product seems much more practical, in my opinion.


The Raptors do not exist in a vacuum. Other teams can, and do, adjust to the team knowing what they can, and will, expect. The Raptors have nearly half a season now of under .500 ball - that is just bad.

Tie in that with the fact the game plan is flawed to begin with and I'm not sure how one can't lay blame predominantly on Casey (not all of it, but an overwhelming majority of it). If what we see on the court is what he wants done, then he is at fault. If what we are seeing on the court is not what he wants done, then he is at fault because it is his job as the head coach to hold players accountable.

[DanH]

There's nothing crazy really, the only crazy thing is how much East sucks these past two years. Im not sure if any long time NBA fan can recall a season, when East was that bad.

Last time the Raps won their division, I would say.

[iblastoff]

There's nothing crazy really, the only crazy thing is how much East sucks these past two years. Im not sure if any long time NBA fan can recall a season, when East was that bad.

meh it all goes in cycles. just like how the lakers were the powerhouses for years and look at them now. or the celtics. or the kings. or even the pistons who reigned not even that long ago. teams just have to rebuild when their main guys get too old or whatever the reason. some teams just take longer than others to do so.

i want to see how well the spurs do once duncan/parker/ginobili etc are all out and they have to rebuild around leonard.

[planetmars]

You know what's crazy? Last year and this year, in terms of pure W/L and a playoff appearance, are still the best Raptors performances since the 2000-01 Vince Carter team. Look at all these flaws in the on-court product, and this team is still outperforming any Bryan Colangelo, Sam Mitchell, Jay Triano, or Chris Bosh team. Fans (myself included) defended BC and Triano several of those seasons, even though those teams were a touch less productive than this one. That this team is doing more than Chris Bosh ever could while all these glaring flaws exist means quite a bit, imho. I really think a solid turnaround is within reach.

It helps to not have Andrea Bargnani on the team.

[Fully]

Is it possible the effort has dropped off due to:

...disillusionment?
...A realization the plan is weak?
...The strategies are known?
...A sense of hopelessness that they keep pounding the same rock with a feather expecting it to magically break?


Is it possible there is a lack of effort due to frustration caused by:

...a lack of accountability?
...pigeon holed roles?
...poor team play?
...double standards?



If I was on that team and not one of the favoured sons or chosen ones, I'd be pretty pissed off too.


I can't watch these games and think the root cause of the glaring problems is screaming "GO! GO! GO!" on the sidelines on every change of possession.

Did you really sandwich this post in between you saying that "you don't pretend to know what goes on in the locker room" and "I don't think it is practical to speculate on what might be happening behind the scenes with interpersonal relationships and team leadership within the ranks of players"?

[mcHAPPY]

Did you really sandwich this post in between you saying that "you don't pretend to know what goes on in the locker room" and "I don't think it is practical to speculate on what might be happening behind the scenes with interpersonal relationships and team leadership within the ranks of players"?

Yes. Yes, I did.

Did you miss the part where it was all posed as questions?

Did read the exchange?

Did you miss the flow?

Is it not permissible to do a little counter speculating?