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  • psrs1 wrote: View Post
    I know. It undermines primers whole argument.
    It doesn't undermine any of my argument. The team made a shit ton of money this past year, more than it ever has. MLSE isn't chomping at the bit to fire the coach that got them there (that they still owe $4M) just because his shit roster couldn't cut it in the playoffs.

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    • Primer wrote: View Post
      You're being way too reactionary. I wanted Casey gone really badly, but I can also see why he was retained "for now" and it doesn't even come close to justifying any fire masai talk.

      The reasons Casey was retained:
      We still owe Casey $4M for next season. It's easy for us to say MLSE is super rich so they should just pay him the money and a new coach even more money ($5M seems to be the starting point), but it's not a good business decision when the team is making record profits. MLSE is thinking if it ain't broke don't fix it, because the bottom line is good right now.

      No obviously better coaching candidates, just speculatively better Assistants.

      We already have one of the best candidates on our staff as an Assistant in Nurse, so a mid-season firing of Casey and promotion of Nurse would be easy and cost us nothing extra.

      We won more games than the franchise ever has.

      We won the division back to back years and got the 3 seed in the East.

      Casey has improved the teams record every season, so a firing isn't really palatable until there is a drop off.

      We were stuck with a mostly BC roster that is obviously mediocre no matter who the coach is.

      There shouldn't be any Fire Masai talk until the team actually gets worse "wins wise" and nothing is done about it. The ending to last season was very concerning, and I'd say Casey is on some pretty damn thin ice, but it would have been a much riskier move to fire him then retain him at this point.

      If we start next season terribly and we get the same rhetoric about staying the course, then it will be time to start start thinking about Masai's job safety in earnest.

      You also need to keep in mind that Masai hasn't had the opportunity to do anything yet, the season isn't over, trades can't be completed right now, free agents can't be signed right now. At least wait until after the draft to get your pitch forks out.
      Primer wrote: View Post
      It doesn't undermine any of my argument. The team made a shit ton of money this past year, more than it ever has. MLSE isn't chomping at the bit to fire the coach that got them there (that they still owe $4M) just because his shit roster couldn't cut it in the playoffs.
      Stop it! You're making way too much sense. Good posts.
      Last edited by special1; Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:57 PM.

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      • psrs1 wrote: View Post
        Jim Ballsille from RIM.
        I have a feeling Jim's financial worth has changed drastically in recent times Besides I always thought hockey (NHL) was his priority. Is he excited about basketball ownership?

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        • raptors999 wrote: View Post
          Coangelo did the same thing early then every move afterwards was just painting a sinking ship. Also right now a likely lottery pick sounds great but the real test is the player they draft. Coangelo got #1 overall and it didn't end well
          Who did Colaneglo ever trade for a lotto pick? No one. Masai has already gotten us a lotto pick and a 16th overall pick for our garbage.

          Colangelo's only good moves were signing Parker and Garbajosa, and the Villanueva for Ford trade. Masai has already done way more for the franchise than Colangelo ever did.

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          • Bendit wrote: View Post
            I have a feeling Jim's financial worth has changed drastically in recent times Besides I always thought hockey (NHL) was his priority. Is he excited about basketball ownership?
            The question was who likes cold winters

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            • Primer wrote: View Post
              It doesn't undermine any of my argument. The team made a shit ton of money this past year, more than it ever has. MLSE isn't chomping at the bit to fire the coach that got them there (that they still owe $4M) just because his shit roster couldn't cut it in the playoffs.
              If they're doing so well why can't the get past the first round. To quote Doug Marrone 'results matter'. Do you really think MLSE is concerned about 4M? They just signed Babcock to a huge contract. Furthermore if they got to second or third rounds their basketball related profits would soar just on ticket prices alone. Ask anyone who has season seats what the charge for playoff tickets.

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              • This is the way I see it.

                Basically we have been looking at a very similarly constructed roster/coaching system for the last 4 years. We absolutely know what we have, what's broke, what needs to be tweaked.

                I'm done waiting. Change it or gtfo

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                • Primer wrote: View Post

                  Casey has improved the teams record every season, so a firing isn't really palatable until there is a drop off.

                  ...

                  There shouldn't be any Fire Masai talk until the team actually gets worse "wins wise" and nothing is done about it.
                  Post Trade 2013/14: .65 win pct%
                  This season 2014/15: .59 win pct%

                  2013/14 Post January: .63 win pct% (outscored by 1.5 PPG in the playoffs)
                  This season Post January: .50 win pct% (outscored by 14 PPG in the playoffs)

                  If that's not a drop off, I dunno what is.

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                  • And that's all on Casey?
                    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                    • Mess wrote: View Post
                      And that's all on Casey?
                      According to the man himself, yes.

                      He didn't remotely adjust the game plan or strategy. Unless you count going even more into it.
                      "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                      "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                      • tDotted wrote: View Post
                        Post Trade 2013/14: .65 win pct%
                        This season 2014/15: .59 win pct%

                        2013/14 Post January: .63 win pct% (outscored by 1.5 PPG in the playoffs)
                        This season Post January: .50 win pct% (outscored by 14 PPG in the playoffs)

                        If that's not a drop off, I dunno what is.
                        I'm talking season over season drop off. It's not terribly fair to cherry pick which months of the season you want to look at to show an improvement or decline. e.g. We can't just look at Casey's poor 2nd half of the season and totally ignore his fantastic 1st half of the season (of which the win% you conveniently left out). To a casual observer it may seem like we played great in the 2nd half of 2013-14 which carried over into the 1st half of 2014-15 before injuries and other issues caused us to regress some.

                        If we ended last year with 45 wins, that would be a drop off, and there would have been a much greater chance Casey was let go.

                        I want Casey gone, I'm positive he doesn't have what it takes to be a good head coach, but I completely understand why he was retained, and think it's silly for anyone to be using the non-firing of Casey as a reason to call for firing Masai (how this whole discussion started).

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                        • Primer wrote: View Post
                          I'm talking season over season drop off. It's not terribly fair to cherry pick which months of the season you want to look at to show an improvement or decline. e.g. We can't just look at Casey's poor 2nd half of the season and totally ignore his fantastic 1st half of the season (of which the win% you conveniently left out). To a casual observer it may seem like we played great in the 2nd half of 2013-14 which carried over into the 1st half of 2014-15 before injuries and other issues caused us to regress some.

                          If we ended last year with 45 wins, that would be a drop off, and there would have been a much greater chance Casey was let go.

                          I want Casey gone, I'm positive he doesn't have what it takes to be a good head coach, but I completely understand why he was retained, and think it's silly for anyone to be using the non-firing of Casey as a reason to call for firing Masai (how this whole discussion started).
                          I consider Post-trade 13/14 and the 14/15 season as a good indicator of season-to-season progression because of the similarities in personnel. We went from a 54 win team % wise to a 49 win team % wise. That's more of a drop than going from 48 wins to 45 (like you mentioned).

                          And to address the post-January stats, consider this famous quote: "it's not how you start, it's how you finish". This was especially evident in our playoff performance.

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                          • tDotted wrote: View Post
                            I consider Post-trade 13/14 and the 14/15 season as a good indicator of season-to-season progression because of the similarities in personnel. We went from a 54 win team % wise to a 49 win team % wise. That's more of a drop than going from 48 wins to 45 (like you mentioned).

                            And to address the post-January stats, consider this famous quote: "it's not how you start, it's how you finish". This was especially evident in our playoff performance.
                            The devil's advocate argument is that team's hadn't had time to adjust to our new lineups since there was no tape, so when our win% started to decline it was just teams finally adjusting. Personally, I'm not swayed by any argument that cherry picks certain portions of the season. If GS loses the next 2 finals games should they blow it up because they didn't finish well? Did SA blow it up when they lost in the 1st round in 2010-11, no, they brought back the same team and went to the conference finals the next year.

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                            • Primer wrote: View Post
                              The devil's advocate argument is that team's hadn't had time to adjust to our new lineups since there was no tape, so when our win% started to decline it was just teams finally adjusting. Personally, I'm not swayed by any argument that cherry picks certain portions of the season. If GS loses the next 2 finals games should they blow it up because they didn't finish well? Did SA blow it up when they lost in the 1st round in 2010-11, no, they brought back the same team and went to the conference finals the next year.
                              I don't think a 61 win team with consistent playoff success and a historically good 67 win team in the finals are good examples but that's just me.

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                              • tDotted wrote: View Post
                                I don't think a 61 win team with consistent playoff success and a historically good 67 win team in the finals are good examples but that's just me.
                                Atlanta also didn't blow it up after being a mediocre playoff team for 7 straight years. They just let their "stars" go via trade or free agency and retooled under a new coach.

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