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  • MACK11 wrote: View Post
    Typical Casey always blaming the players. He's the fucking coach if players aren't doing what he wants you to do don't play them simple as that. But don't come out after the season with a bunch of bs like the players are trying to compensate for DD's absence. Who asked Lou or GV or the other morons to try to compensate for DD? You think Casey was sitting on his hands the entire season? This is the typical Casey BS I've sick of. MU should have canned this blabbing buffoon

    Kevin Ollie wasn't ready

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      I agree that the acquisitions this summer seem geared towards making Casey's job easier.

      That does not in any way reduce my disappointment at how bad he was at his job last year. We don't pay him millions of dollars to do an easy job.
      Ach! Cleverly put, Dan! Perhaps too cleverly.

      After all, isn't it every GM's job is to make the coaches task "easier" ... by improving the talent level, fit and character of the players? Are you suggesting Masai did anything different?

      But you didn't (directly, at least) answer the (narrow) question of whether you think Casey actually disagrees with the perceived weaknesses of the Raptors play last year. I thought the video suggested he sees what you see ... which would be good, right?

      Comment


      • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
        Dwayne Casey: Designing a Defence: Part 1 (3:13 w/ Donovan Bennett, Sportsnet)

        http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...-defence-pt-1/

        (I'm reading into this, but ...)

        If I'm not mistaken, Casey states/implies here that the Salmons trade cost them some defence, period. But the early season offensive success pulled them away from a defence-first style ... and when DeMar went down, Lou, Grievis and others got further away (in trying to compensate for his lost offence) from generating offence in the kind of systematic way that is conducive to good defence ... and playoff-type basketball.

        So ... (ugh!) ... Any (um ... "insightful"?) comments?
        It's kind of sad, really. John Salmons is the difference between a top 10 and a bottom 5 defence. Who knew? So, why'd we just blow $22M/yr on Carroll and Cojo, when we could have just brought Salmons back for $1M. Is Salmons even on a team yet?
        Last edited by golden; Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:26 PM.

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        • Yeah, you can definitely blame Casey for not righting the ship defensively, but I think you have to forgive him just a little for rolling with what he had to work with. It didn't work in the playoffs, and it didn't work down the stretch like it could have, but overall the offensive-focus had quite a bit of success. The 10-man rotation was pretty good, it just sucked at D. The 5 he didn't play shouldn't have.

          Now he's out of excuses with a different level of athleticism on the roster.

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            It's kind of sad, really. John Salmons is the difference between a top 10 and a bottom 5 defence. Who knew? So, why'd we just blow $22M/yr on Carroll and Cojo, when we have could just brought Salmons back for $1M. Is Salmons even on a team yet?
            No that's not quite it, I don't think. I think he said (in the video ... I linked it) that the Salmons/Lou Williams switch wasn't the net gain, overall, that the talent of the respective players would suggest. And that, with the tantalizing early success and the injuries, they couldn't sustain the defensive cohesion they had the year previous.

            Anyway, that's roughly what I think he was saying. But you're right. If he was just saying what you're suggesting ... well that would be dumb, now wouldn't it!
            Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:31 PM.

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            • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
              Ach! Cleverly put, Dan! Perhaps too cleverly.

              After all, isn't it every GM's job is to make the coaches task "easier" ... by improving the talent level, fit and character of the players? Are you suggesting Masai did anything different?

              But you didn't (directly, at least) answer the (narrow) question of whether you think Casey actually disagrees with the perceived weaknesses of the Raptors play last year. I thought the video suggested he sees what you see ... which would be good, right?
              Well, considering many including myself here were criticizing those choices a month into the season (well before DD went down and the problem was exacerbated) and he didn't do anything to change it, no it's not a great sign that our NBA coach is only now catching up to us.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                No that's not quite it, I don't think. I think he said (in the video ... I linked it) that the Salmons/Lou Williams switch wasn't the net gain, overall, that the talent of the respective players would suggest. And that, with the tantalizing early success and the injuries, they couldn't sustain the defensive cohesion they had the year previous.

                Anyway, that's roughly what I think he was saying. But you're right. If he was just saying what you're suggesting ... well that would be dumb, now wouldn't it!
                But it's a terrible half-truth and speaks volumes about the Casey's character as a leader of men who should take his share of responsibility for failure.

                The defensive swap wasn't Salmons for Lou, it was Salmons for JJ - a much superior defensive player. Casey just didn't know how to utilize JJ, or contain Lou on offense. Think about it this way:

                JJ took Salmons role (major upgrade on O and D)
                Lou took Vasquez role (major upgrade on O, no change on D)
                GV took Nando's role (major upgrade on O, no change on D)

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                • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                  Yeah, you can definitely blame Casey for not righting the ship defensively, but I think you have to forgive him just a little for rolling with what he had to work with. It didn't work in the playoffs, and it didn't work down the stretch like it could have, but overall the offensive-focus had quite a bit of success. The 10-man rotation was pretty good, it just sucked at D. The 5 he didn't play shouldn't have.

                  Now he's out of excuses with a different level of athleticism on the roster.
                  Well that's what I added the Jack Armstrong opinion for. You can't just fire - or even simply bench - all, or most, of your most talented players if they're not "getting it". Everyone knows that that's a major contributing fact to the short shelf-lives of coaches (in every sport). I think all agree that the team comes together by the end of the season or Casey will be gone (and possibly quite a lot sooner, depending on who Masai has on his replacement short list ... and whether they're already in-house).

                  But I thought I saw signs/indications in the vid that Casey actually agrees with his detractors assessments of what went wrong (there are two more video installments to come).

                  Does this seem true or not? Jeez ...

                  Comment


                  • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                    Typical Casey always blaming the players. He's the fucking coach if players aren't doing what he wants you to do don't play them simple as that. But don't come out after the season with a bunch of bs like the players are trying to compensate for DD's absence. Who asked Lou or GV or the other morons to try to compensate for DD? You think Casey was sitting on his hands the entire season? This is the typical Casey BS I've sick of. MU should have canned this blabbing buffoon
                    Its hard to tell the players to stop. When what their doing is winning games. I'm sure he kept reinforcing it. Their style of play was working.
                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      It's kind of sad, really. John Salmons is the difference between a top 10 and a bottom 5 defence. Who knew? So, why'd we just blow $22M/yr on Carroll and Cojo, when we could have just brought Salmons back for $1M. Is Salmons even on a team yet?
                      Salmons might be a lot of things but, he was a solid defender. Its not about Salmons its about who you replaced him with.
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        But it's a terrible half-truth and speaks volumes about the Casey's character as a leader of men who should take his share of responsibility for failure.

                        The defensive swap wasn't Salmons for Lou, it was Salmons for JJ - a much superior defensive player. Casey just didn't know how to utilize JJ, or contain Lou on offense. Think about it this way:

                        JJ took Salmons role (major upgrade on O and D)
                        Lou took Vasquez role (major upgrade on O, no change on D)
                        GV took Nando's role (major upgrade on O, no change on D)
                        That was the one real tool at Casey's disposal that he failed to capitalize on, that and he could have slowed tempo and upped JV's minutes. Whether that would have resulted in more wins in the season or playoffs is debatable. In a way, using Hans as the backup centre on a very successful small-ball bench unit could be lauded as creative, but it was necessity more than anything.

                        I might argue that he could have upped JJ's minutes, slowed it down, and reined in Lou/GV, and the defense would have been better, but again I can't imagine the outcome being demonstrably different.

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          Salmons might be a lot of things but, he was a solid defender. Its not about Salmons its about who you replaced him with.
                          That 'who' was JJ. Solid enough for you?

                          Comment


                          • Okay. I don't want to start a food fight.

                            And maybe I misunderstand what people have been saying here. I thought the main criticisms were about his promoting an "iso-ball" style of play (and benching JV in the fourth ... though one hears that less here, thank God ... Oh and the in-game play-calling. seems there is more of a consensus on that point). And I thought he was saying that he really wasn't.

                            As for getting players to listen to sensible coaching. If you find that secret, bottle it. There are, I believe, many good men (and good women) who get hired, then fired, then re-hired on the assumption that the next group of dimwits will listen to them ... when they plainly weren't listening to the last guy/gal.

                            But I'm not an expert on this stuff. No doubt. I really was just hoping to tempt people into offering some advice on what to look/hope for in the coming season ... I swear it! But that would require some (knowledgeable - that's implicit, right?) people accepting that changes are possible before Casey is fired.

                            (It would be more ... well, more varied, if nothing else, than the "he's a clown, with the IQ of a walnut" stuff I have been reading since I came here ... on this point, anyway. But I suppose those who have been here longer are tired of that analysis. Fair enough, perhaps.)
                            Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Sep 24, 2015, 10:03 PM.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Well, considering many including myself here were criticizing those choices a month into the season (well before DD went down and the problem was exacerbated) and he didn't do anything to change it, no it's not a great sign that our NBA coach is only now catching up to us.
                              Its not about catching up now. I remember multiple interviews of Casey saying "playing this way will catch up to us. We need to play better D". Its just the team was just on such a high. I honestly cant remember a better period of time like that. You preach what you want but when your winning its hard to tell your players to do something else.
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • golden wrote: View Post
                                But it's a terrible half-truth and speaks volumes about the Casey's character as a leader of men who should take his share of responsibility for failure.

                                The defensive swap wasn't Salmons for Lou, it was Salmons for JJ - a much superior defensive player. Casey just didn't know how to utilize JJ, or contain Lou on offense. Think about it this way:

                                JJ took Salmons role (major upgrade on O and D)
                                Lou took Vasquez role (major upgrade on O, no change on D)
                                GV took Nando's role (major upgrade on O, no change on D)
                                Doug Collins once said on ESPN "if you want to get the most out of Lou Williams you have just let him do him." When you restrain him it takes away from his impact. That's why he wasn't as effective in Atlanta(before the injury). That offense restrained him.

                                Doug Collins coached Lou William in Philly.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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