#FireCasey

[raptors999]

i've downloaded the games and watched them and not, so again not everybody. coaches are judged on wins. we can keep moving the bar forever for you guys but it won't make any difference.

it could be that casey has gotten this team as far as he can. it could be that his coaching niche is taking horrid horrid teams and making them competitive and struggles in taking the next step from there. we will know for sure after this years playoffs but again, he isn't a bad coach and if the "haters" would apply the same logic and reasoning they selectively do to how bad he is they would see that. it is a goose gander problem because reasons and reason isn't welcome

Coaches in the NA are judged by playoff success. Lots of coaches who couldn't translate regular season wins to the playoffs have been canned. Mike Brown won 60

[A.I]

Coaches in the NA are judged by playoff success. Lots of coaches who couldn't translate regular season wins to the playoffs have been canned. Mike Brown won 60

66 to be exact.

[raptors999]

66 to be exact.

And he was garbage

[Miekenstien]

Coaches in the NA are judged by playoff success. Lots of coaches who couldn't translate regular season wins to the playoffs have been canned. Mike Brown won 60

but you've already said they don't get credit for having good/great players on their teams because reasons. so choose one definition and apply it to everything.

[Primer]

I just wish Casey could have gone smaller tonight. Scola at Center was much too large, that's why we lost to one of shittiest teams in the NBA. Seriously, just look at the joke of a squad Denver played tonight. What happened to the rotations from last night? Casey's decision making is mind boggling. We should have steamrolled this team.

[raptors999]

but you've already said they don't get credit for having good/great players on their teams because reasons. so choose one definition and apply it to everything.

A coach doesn't have Lowry single handedly win a game. How can you credit Casey for playing Bebe if he goes back to the same rotation the next night. It's the same as Landry in the Nets series, injury or not Casey wanted Salmons back in. Casey is just terrible at using players correctly. Even when JJ and Bebe do play he has them on such a short lease he mnay as well bench them

[S.R.]

wouldn't the top 10 offense dispute this reasoning? and have you read this thread? who brought up jv? so ignoring everything else, lets start up a new argument. the only place that casey doesn't get credit for this team are these sites.

#becausereasons

Spend more time showing how Casey is a good coach and less time baiting everyone you disagree with and there could actually be a discussion.

[Miekenstien]

Spend more time showing how Casey is a good coach and less time baiting everyone you disagree with and there could actually be a discussion.

no there couldn't. have you read this thread? this thread is all bait. i am just making it fun for myself.

[Wild-ling#1]

Everybody who watch games criticizes what is going on. People who look at W-L and stats think he's okay. He ius just terrible a game after Bebe frees up the guards he return to Biyombo clogging the paint.

"Everybody" is an overstatement.

As for Bebe, I thought he was altering and blocking shots very well against Atlanta. Not tonight. And his screens were a bit sloppier (they were great yesterday, I thought - better than JV's).

And Bebe had ONE rebound in 15 minutes (And they were getting too many second-chance points). So he got yanked for Biz ... cause we couldn't just trade buckets at the end ...

As for the rest, you can't win with ONLY DeMar shooting well (and Joseph kicking in reasonably well - high efficiency on 15 pts.). Not with the rest shooting badly (or hardly at all - Patterson). No starting center, off night for our (great) PG and 4, a hobbling 3 and a dismal bench.

That's pretty much "end of story", isn't it? Hard to "coach" your way out of all that misery, I think.

But I'm with Primer: Come the morn, how will DeRozan be blamed?

[DogeLover1234]

"Everybody" is an overstatement.

As for Bebe, I thought he was altering and blocking shots very well against Atlanta. Not tonight. And his screens were a bit sloppier (they were great yesterday, I thought - better than JV's).

And Bebe had ONE rebound in 15 minutes (And they were getting too many second-chance points). So he got yanked for Biz ... cause we couldn't just trade buckets at the end ...

As for the rest, you can't win with ONLY DeMar shooting well (and Joseph kicking in reasonably well - high efficiency on 15 pts.). Not with the rest shooting badly (or hardly at all - Patterson). No starting center, off night for our (great) PG and 4, a hobbling 3 and a dismal bench.

That's pretty much "end of story", isn't it? Hard to "coach" your way out of all that misery, I think.

But I'm with Primer: Come the morn, how will DeRozan be blamed?

Doesn't that clearly show our issue though? We rely on DeRozen and Lowry to create so much offense that they cant have off days. This crushed us in the second half of last season, when they started feeling the wear and tear of carrying the team. I think that the coach should take at least some of the blame for allowing and encouraging this.

[Miekenstien]

Doesn't that clearly show our issue though? We rely on DeRozen and Lowry to create so much offense that they cant have off days. This crushed us in the second half of last season, when they started feeling the wear and tear of carrying the team. I think that the coach should take at least some of the blame for allowing and encouraging this.

agreed. so much agreed. along with some of the praise for keeping the team together, playing hard, competing with one of the toughest schedules, so far, injuries and somehow players that forgot how to shoot.

[Axel]

so pop having robinson and duncan isn't coaching. just great players playing great. but but pop is pop. so jackson isn't great just had michael and pippen. but but jackson.

balls guys. balls

This doesn't even make sense man.

Your universal rule to coaching evaluation simply doesn't work.

Coaches are evaluated based on results, expectations and circumstance.

Brett Brown in Philly has very different results than Mike Brown did with Cleveland. But Brett would be widely regarded as the better coach. Mike Brown won tons of games but is generally regarded as a bad coach.

Wins/Losses really are only good for playoff success; where the end result is the only thing that matters.

But regular season has to take into account the process that gets you to the playoffs, because the habits (good or bad), the confidence and experience that get instilled into the players starting in October is what will likely make the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs.

So if you want to praise Casey, then by all means do so, but please stop criticizing posters who disagree with you and provide a little more than "well we won, so Casey deserves credit" if you don't want people to simply dismiss your posts.

[Axel]

For lack of better place, sticking this here. From an SI article about the Wiz's struggles to adopt small ball.

"Any team can better space the floor by adding shooters. The trick is to build a roster that can leverage that space into effective and consistent offense. NBA defenses are too good (and now too practiced in defending small-ball-style teams) to make a possession as easy as drive and kick. The player on the receiving end of Wall’s passes has to be able to 1) fire off a shot quickly from a high release point, 2) swing the ball cleanly to an open man, or 3) put the ball on the floor to attack the closeout with a productive play."

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/03/fun...man-small-ball

[LJ2]

This doesn't even make sense man.

Your universal rule to coaching evaluation simply doesn't work.

Coaches are evaluated based on results, expectations and circumstance.

Brett Brown in Philly has very different results than Mike Brown did with Cleveland. But Brett would be widely regarded as the better coach. Mike Brown won tons of games but is generally regarded as a bad coach.

Wins/Losses really are only good for playoff success; where the end result is the only thing that matters.

But regular season has to take into account the process that gets you to the playoffs, because the habits (good or bad), the confidence and experience that get instilled into the players starting in October is what will likely make the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs.

So if you want to praise Casey, then by all means do so, but please stop criticizing posters who disagree with you and provide a little more than "well we won, so Casey deserves credit" if you don't want people to simply dismiss your posts.

Agree with much of what you are saying but I think you have to account for more than just a coaches knowledge base or simply how good they are with x's and o's. I think being able to manage your locker room and keeping players happy and playing hard is a skill as well. Mike Brown was able to do that in Clevland, but I'm not so sure Brett Brown has any clue how to handle the stars of this league.

Casey is by no means a great x's and o's coach but he gets the best out of his players. Certainly Kyle's career has reached new levels, DeMar too is playing as well as he's ever played, old man Scola playing great, Cojo being given ample opportunity, not to mention players that have left that had good years under Casey. And the team overall is slowly incorporating more of a team offence.

I realize wins/loses don't mean as much in the regular season, but you aren't going to make the post season without it right? You can't fault coach Bud for Atlanta playing great in the regular season and then getting destroyed by Clevland in the playoffs.

[Axel]

Agree with much of what you are saying but I think you have to account for more than just a coaches knowledge base or simply how good they are with x's and o's. I think being able to manage your locker room and keeping players happy and playing hard is a skill as well. Mike Brown was able to do that in Clevland, but I'm not so sure Brett Brown has any clue how to handle the stars of this league.

Casey is by no means a great x's and o's coach but he gets the best out of his players. Certainly Kyle's career has reached new levels, DeMar too is playing as well as he's ever played, old man Scola playing great, Cojo being given ample opportunity, not to mention players that have left that had good years under Casey. And the team overall is slowly incorporating more of a team offence.

I realize wins/loses don't mean as much in the regular season, but you aren't going to make the post season without it right? You can't fault coach Bud for Atlanta playing great in the regular season and then getting destroyed by Clevland in the playoffs.

I agree with the first bold, that is definitely something that needs to be a part of any good coach.

I would think though, that keeping players happy and keeping players happy while playing in a productive system are two different things. For example, Lou Williams was perfectly happy last year, but he was given free reign to play in a poor way. Getting a talented player to buy in to a team, making individual sacrifices for team success might be the difference between a successful coaching career and a poor one.

I would think the main tenets of a good coaching are:
System design and implementation - x's and o's that rule the basic principles of the offence/defence and the ability to explain them
Adjustments (in game and through season - perhaps "adaptability" would be the term)
Motivation and Leadership - keeping players happy, hungry and focused
Player Development - individual and within the team concept

To the second bold and specifically the underline, I don't think that is necessarily true. Individual accolades/success do not mean that the coach is getting the best of his players. Again, Lou last year won 6th man of the Year, but did he really do what was best for the team? I wouldn't consider Demar/Kyle making the All-Star team as a coaching success, if they get there with ball domineering play that doesn't elevate their teammates (and arguably freezes teammates out of the games at times).

I would also consider that Casey specifically gets more individually out of certain players - ball dominant guards. Carroll doesn't look particularly good. JV has long been thought to have been underutilized. Ross doesn't play to his strengths and JJ just doesn't play. Even Scola has been quite up and down. And let's leave Rudy Gay and Bargnani in the past "hell or high water".

Regular season wins, the goal is to win AND be in the best position to succeed in the playoffs. Casey has managed the first half of that equation but has been terrible on the second half. His system designs seemed easily exploited once teams spend more time scouting and adjusting for their opponents (which is why playoffs is harder to score). His rotations often leave players burned out (Lowry) to phased out (JJ, JV at times), so that players are not really equipped to play at the higher level needed to advance.

Atlanta last year had a ton of injuries in the playoffs and lost to a Cavs team fielding LeBron and Kyrie. It is for reasons such as this that there is no one-size-fits-all evaluation method to coaching. Each game, season, circumstance has to be looked at differently.