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  • Snooch wrote: View Post
    It should have been implied and accepted by anyone without a huge chip on their shoulder
    Yes, it should have been. But this is the internet, where 96% of people carry boulders on shoulders.
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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    • Letter N wrote: View Post
      Because he happened to be the biggest star. You think Andrew "son of ex-NBA player" Wiggins wasn't going to pick up a basketball and idolize a different Raptor if VC wasn't there?

      Or maybe Anthony Bennett was choosing between basketball and the chess club in high school before he saw Vince dunk.
      Some guys probably do still pick up a basketball, but the same passion for basketball probably isn't there if Mo-Pete, or even T-Mac is their idol instead of VC. That initial passion and love for the sport could be the difference in motivating a kid to be something more than just really good and/or dropping the sport altogether. Of course, lots of other factors involved.

      But the one thing that was different about Vince is that he brought massive attention and respect from the mainstream US media - even if most of it was for the spectacular dunks. Guys like Melo and Durant said that VC was one of their favourite players growing up. That never happened before - a Toronto athlete. Vinsanity had a cool factor beyond basketball. Torontonians crave that validation from the US media, for whatever reason. It makes us feel cool and accepted. T-Mac and Bosh never had (or would have had) the same gut level effect on kids that Carter had. I think that does get more kids into playing basketball that might have been looking at track or soccer or football or baseball, or just hanging out.

      Personal story here: Way back in the day at the height of Vinsanity, I was travelling to a small town in Estonia, of all places. I hopped in a taxi and the driver asked me where I was from, and I said Toronto. First words out of his mouth: "Toronto....oh.... Vince Carter". Think about that. VC literally put Toronto on the map for that guy. I was floored. That type of popularity transcends basketball and that was before internet streaming and wide-scale NBA global exposure.

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      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
        "Zeke deserves as much credit carter for the early year" yeah, because people were lining up for tickets to come watch zeke general manage. Tsn was running promos for this weeks game featuring "isaiah thomas and the torontooooo raptors" cmon man.
        Right and how did Vince Carter end up in Toronto again? Mighty Mouse, Camby and T-Mac. Zeke set the table for what came next. Had he not been in Toronto the team might have never got Carter or had the assets to build a good team around him.

        Zeke hadn't been retired for that long. He was a superstar, a hall of fame PG. Yes, he did draw attention to the Toronto Raptors. Just like Michael Jordan drew interest to the Wiz only in Zeke's case the man knew legit talent when he saw it. Zeke is a bigger star than Carter ever had a chance to be.

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        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
          He should have said "he's the greeatest at one thing among multiple time all stars" kind of like ray allen
          Dunking is not the same as 3-point shooting. 3-point shooting is a legitimate skill that affects the game, dunking is just cool.

          John Stockton makes the HOF because he passed well, Jason Williams doesn't even though he could do behind the back passes better than anyone in history.

          It's the HOF, not a youtube mixtape.

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          • Finishing, whether it be a lay up or game dunk is a legit skill. In other words knowing when, where and how to slash. Then finishing strong in traffic while luring a guy into a foul. If a player knows how to do that he's a defense destabler and if he also knows how to shoot then he's a game breaking superstar.

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            • Apollo wrote: View Post
              Right and how did Vince Carter end up in Toronto again? Mighty Mouse, Camby and T-Mac. Zeke set the table for what came next. Had he not been in Toronto the team might have never got Carter or had the assets to build a good team around him.

              Zeke hadn't been retired for that long. He was a superstar, a hall of fame PG. Yes, he did draw attention to the Toronto Raptors. Just like Michael Jordan drew interest to the Wiz only in Zeke's case the man knew legit talent when he saw it. Zeke is a bigger star than Carter ever had a chance to be.
              So I guess we should credit rod thorn for the nbas resurgance in the 90s and the popularity to this day, after all he drafted michael jordan.

              Look, I'm not saying he deserves no credit. I'm saying its silly to put his credit for building the game in TO at the same level as vince.
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • )
                Letter N wrote: View Post
                Dunking is not the same as 3-point shooting. 3-point shooting is a legitimate skill that affects the game, dunking is just cool.

                John Stockton makes the HOF because he passed well, Jason Williams doesn't even though he could do behind the back passes better than anyone in history.

                It's the HOF, not a youtube mixtape.
                1) 3 point shooting is a legitimate skill that affects the game, dunking is just cool". Sorry that is a straight dumb comment, and you've clearly never played basketall.
                2) Again you're completely taking things off the rails and missing the point. John stockton was a great passer but more than that he was an all around great nba player. Jason williams WAS a great passer but a very mediocre PLAYER. Vince carter: great dunker, great player. Why do you think were not talking about zach lavine or gerald green as all time dunkers? They're jason williams, vince is stockton (in this comparison, don't even try to jump on that)
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                  So I guess we should credit rod thorn for the nbas resurgance in the 90s and the popularity to this day, after all he drafted michael jordan.

                  Look, I'm not saying he deserves no credit. I'm saying its silly to put his credit for building the game in TO at the same level as vince.
                  No but we should give him credit for periods where the teams he managed saw success, resurgence. Success starts with the man in the back working the phones. If he's not good then everything else that follows it probably going to be a load of shit. People don't want to pay to see shit you see.

                  Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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                  • Joe Dumars never dunked, Magic Johnson barely dunked, Scottie Pippen barely dunked. You don't need to dunk to be a great player, it's still just 2-points whether it's a layup or dunk.

                    A 3-pointer is 1 more point, it's an actual factor, not a psychological or entertainment one.

                    Vince = Glen Rice
                    If you want Glen Rice calibre players in the HOF then maybe we disagree on what merits are necessary to be inducted.

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                    • Letter N wrote: View Post
                      Dunking is not the same as 3-point shooting. 3-point shooting is a legitimate skill that affects the game, dunking is just cool.

                      John Stockton makes the HOF because he passed well, Jason Williams doesn't even though he could do behind the back passes better than anyone in history.

                      It's the HOF, not a youtube mixtape.
                      A dunk is a huge skill, and it can also take the air out of a building faster than any three pointer will as well.

                      And Stockton had more assists than anyone, Jason Williams was a bitch whose best season as a passer netted him 4th in the nba at it. Williams nevefr acomplished anything on his own in the nba. If he was getting multiple allstar appearances, player of the weeks, player of the months, rookie of the year, then sure...

                      Probability of HOF - 0.001%,

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                      • Letter N wrote: View Post
                        Joe Dumars never dunked, Magic Johnson barely dunked, Scottie Pippen barely dunked. You don't need to dunk to be a great player, it's still just 2-points whether it's a layup or dunk.

                        A 3-pointer is 1 more point, it's an actual factor, not a psychological or entertainment one.

                        Vince = Glen Rice
                        If you want Glen Rice calibre players in the HOF then maybe we disagree on what merits are necessary to be inducted.

                        Vince has done FAR more than just dunking, but just based on the what he did in that department, and what it did for the game at that point in time then he would get in.

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                        • Snooch wrote: View Post
                          Jason Williams was a bitch
                          This made me LOL very loudly at work.

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                          • Letter N wrote: View Post
                            Joe Dumars never dunked, Magic Johnson barely dunked, Scottie Pippen barely dunked. You don't need to dunk to be a great player, it's still just 2-points whether it's a layup or dunk.

                            A 3-pointer is 1 more point, it's an actual factor, not a psychological or entertainment one.

                            Vince = Glen Rice
                            If you want Glen Rice calibre players in the HOF then maybe we disagree on what merits are necessary to be inducted.
                            Take dunking away from Shaq and Wilt and what are you left with? Great free-throw shooting... lol.

                            But seriously though, from a basketball standpoint, a dunk is the highest percentage shot possible. A layup in traffic will be easily blocked, but you can execute a dunk if you are strong and athletic enough. Strip away the "cool factor" and it's still a smart and highly efficient basketball play IF you can do it. Vince could do it as good as anybody.

                            Do you think this play would work as a layup?

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                            • Steve Nash on the growth of basketball in Canada:

                              "But where is all of this talent coming from? I'd contend a lot of talent has always been there, but a number of things have allowed the talent to emerge and be recognized in the United States and beyond. Although we've had a sprinkling of Canadian NBA players, we're now in a golden era where it seems we boast multiple McDonald's All Americans because American fans and evaluators recognize the talent. And those guys can turn into Wiggins (with an NBA future) and Bennett, the No. 1 overall pick of the 2013 NBA draft. It seems there are even more Canadian first-round draft picks every year, with more sure to follow.

                              Right now interest and participation in the game in Canada is at an all-time high. While my friends and I grew up watching the NBA like a lot of Canadians, the arrival of the Toronto Raptors and the Vancouver Grizzlies brought the NBA and the game of basketball into more households across the country exponentially and with a new intimacy. The sport's visibility exploded, and with it so did interest, excitement and participation.

                              For six and a half years, much of Canada's young talent watched and fell in love with a flamboyant, human highlight film named Vince Carter. He inspired them nightly while playing for the home team Raptors. I think Vince's presence in our country shouldn't be underestimated. His charisma was incredibly powerful in attracting a Canadian audience to the game of basketball for a memorable period of time."

                              http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ian-basketball

                              He's had pretty good success in almost every way other than a deep playoff run. College was back-to-back Final Four appearances, Olympic gold medal, 8 time All-Star, top 35 McDonald's All-Americans of all time, #30 all time NBA scoring, All NBA 2nd and 3rd, RoY...

                              As far as impact off the court, fwiw he led All-Star voting 4 times, after MJ and in front of Kobe during some of his best years, just before China took over the voting. VC wasn't no fecking Glen Rice, that's for sure.

                              Around that time in his prime, the guy was capable of 27-30 ppg, 6-8 rpg, 5-6 apg, and 2 spg in the playoffs. He was much, much better than Chris Bosh or DeMar DeRozan, so I don't by the "if it wasn't him it would have been someone else" re: making an impact on basketball in Canada. If Bosh had played on all Vince's teams in place of Vince, would Bosh have any rings? If Vince played with Lebron James and D-Wade, would Vince have any rings?

                              VC was definitely lacking something as a competitor (Paul Pierce's "it" factor), but the team success problem is a tough one that impacts a lot of guys.

                              VC is a borderline HoF'er to me, but considering who else gets in, I think he deserves to be there.

                              BTW if 3 pt shooting is a more useful skill, Vince is #8 all time for made 3's
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                              • Hahaha pointing to one play is irrelevant, the end result is 2-points, and the end result is a career with no championships, no finals, no mvps, no 1st team selections, no defensive accolades, no individual awards outside of a ROY.

                                He was very famous though, so maybe that's your criteria for the Hall of Fame. Mine is excellence at the sport, which is a test he doesn't pass.

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