Everything VanVleet

[Yuri Gagarin]

Facepalm

[Maury]

I don't think most are assassinating Fred's character as much as his play or perhaps his fit on the current roster.
By all accounts he's a good man, certainly a good family man, who doesn't like the under dog bet on yourself story? No one questions his desire to win but that's not enough if you can't back it up.

But it appears there might be some weird friction between him and Barnes/others, his defense has suffered and his shot from 3 (like the whole team) has disappeared all too often.

Most of this comes from a disapppointing team result in what was expected to be another competive season. Instead, we're watching team and individual (FVV, Scotty, Achiuwa, Boucher) regression while still being subjected to Thad and Birch. Worse, other middle of the pack teams appear to be passing us like the Cavs and Pacers and added contributing players while Masai/Webster failed to address significant roster flaws yet again.

Masai needs to suck it up, find a great return and issue a statement "Fred has always been a warrior, bet on himself, chip winner, always a Raptor blah blah blah" and get on with it. Bottom line is this team absolutely needs a bold shakeup and Fred is (was?) the most tradeable asset. He simply can't keep up with many of the PG we're likely to meet in the post season and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team inexplicably locked in and galvinized in his absence.

Oh I totally agree with everything here, just pointing out that it was hard to see him after missing that shot. He’s done a lot for this franchise.

[iblastoff]

I don't think most are assassinating Fred's character as much as his play or perhaps his fit on the current roster.
By all accounts he's a good man, certainly a good family man, who doesn't like the under dog bet on yourself story? No one questions his desire to win but that's not enough if you can't back it up.

But it appears there might be some weird friction between him and Barnes/others, his defense has suffered and his shot from 3 (like the whole team) has disappeared all too often.

Most of this comes from a disapppointing team result in what was expected to be another competive season. Instead, we're watching team and individual (FVV, Scotty, Achiuwa, Boucher) regression while still being subjected to Thad and Birch. Worse, other middle of the pack teams appear to be passing us like the Cavs and Pacers and added contributing players while Masai/Webster failed to address significant roster flaws yet again.

Masai needs to suck it up, find a great return and issue a statement "Fred has always been a warrior, bet on himself, chip winner, always a Raptor blah blah blah" and get on with it. Bottom line is this team absolutely needs a bold shakeup and Fred is (was?) the most tradeable asset. He simply can't keep up with many of the PG we're likely to meet in the post season and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team inexplicably locked in and galvinized in his absence.

fred ISNT the most tradeable asset though. who would want him right now? if anything, gary and OG is the most tradable in terms of value and asset return.

[iblastoff]

and as much as im just trying to play devils advocate in favour of fred, heres another horrible stat lol.

fred is 2nd last in the entire league (of starters playing at least 20 games and 20 min per game) in fg% now (37.4%)

dead last is reggie bullock (33.6%)

[slaw]

fred ISNT the most tradeable asset though. who would want him right now? if anything, gary and OG is the most tradable in terms of value and asset return.

Setting aside Pascal and Barnes, OG would be #1. As between Trent and FVV, I think some of that depends both on fit and the player be willing to re-sign with the team that trades for him. Trent would seemingly have more value being younger but I suspect there are teams that would prefer FVV's experience and track record.

[iblastoff]

Setting aside Pascal and Barnes, OG would be #1. As between Trent and FVV, I think some of that depends both on fit and the player be willing to re-sign with the team that trades for him. Trent would seemingly have more value being younger but I suspect there are teams that would prefer FVV's experience and track record.

i can totally see that. its just still bewildering the amount of drop off this team has had across nearly the *entire* roster. freds is just more glaring because its the one thing he could do (shooting) that could hide his other flaws.

[G__Deane]

Not just Fred, look at Pascal. He's like "really dude?"

[golden]

Oh I totally agree with everything here, just pointing out that it was hard to see him after missing that shot. He’s done a lot for this franchise.

And the franchise has done a lot for Fred. Maybe too much.... we built him up to the point where he truly believes he's our saviour.

[G__Deane]

fred ISNT the most tradeable asset though. who would want him right now? if anything, gary and OG is the most tradable in terms of value and asset return.

Most tradeable asset of who they would consider trading. Maybe Gary but they're highly unlikely to trade OG or you'd have to say Pascal would be the most tradeable, likely Barnes. I still think Fred gets you a better return than GTJr but not what he might have a few months ago.

[slaw]

i can totally see that. its just still bewildering the amount of drop off this team has had across nearly the *entire* roster. freds is just more glaring because its the one thing he could do (shooting) that could hide his other flaws.

Well, they look a lot like they did the first part of last season and all of 20-21. Maybe the run the last half of 21-22 was the illusion and this is actually closer to what this group is and who these players are. It's funny cause layered on top is Siakam having an all-NBA season, which is being completely wasted.

[Apollo]

It's time for Fred to go. I don't care if it's the rest of career sell high moment or not. They should move him before the deadline for the best offer available. Embrace a new era.

[MixxAOR]

It's time for Fred to go. I don't care if it's the rest of career sell high moment or not. They should move him before the deadline for the best offer available. Embrace a new era.

this thread was started by you. It's so bittersweet but that's sports

[Kagemusha]

D-League bound.

Lol

[G__Deane]

It's time for Fred to go. I don't care if it's the rest of career sell high moment or not. They should move him before the deadline for the best offer available. Embrace a new era.

Masai is probably trying to bill him as an All Star, Championship winner, bet on himself warrior ("Look over here, not at his stats") and other GM's as reported are just seeing an astronomical unrealistic ask.

Do your job Masai/Bobby

[DanH]

Masai is probably trying to bill him as an All Star, Championship winner, bet on himself warrior ("Look over here, not at his stats") and other GM's as reported are just seeing an astronomical unrealistic ask.

Do your job Masai/Bobby

Why rush into a deal when you've got between now and the deadline to get someone to bite at the price you want, or see the price come up closer to the price you want? Who knows what the offers are right now, but waiting has tended to pay off for Masai in the past and I doubt they'll deviate now unless they get something they really like in the short term, for Gary or Fred (I'm assuming those two are the ones most likely to move).