Everything VanVleet

[golden]

Expectations? No. Context has changed, sure. My entire point was that Fred has had a few perfectly fine shooting nights of late and FG% was a bad way to evaluate him. Don't think he needs to be putting up his peak efficiency for that to be true.

After I pointed out league average TS, your goalpost adjusted justification for “good and very good” was basically….“ that’s perfectly fine for a shitty team”. I’m just pointing out how expectations have been seriously lowered around here.

[Primer]

28 is not old. 35 is old. 28 is still right in that prime year. But, I'm not hoping for anything. VanVleet isn't a scrub. He's going to be an asset no matter what.. just like DeMar was. DeMar had a terrible playoffs and was still traded for Kawhi. And the Spurs aren't a joke franchise.


It's really a matter of when the Raptors want to move on from this core into a new one. I don't see it happening at the deadline. It's hard to make deals then.

If Fred is moved it's likely in the summer. As for his player option.. I think he still opts out. And I still suspect he gets a 3-4 year deal just like he would have if he played well. And if the Raps bring him back, who says they would keep him for all 3-4 years?

If he keeps playing like this we may have to. Could be Demarre Carroll all over again.

We signed Demarre when he was 29, same age Fred will be next season, and that's when his game fell off a fucking cliff and we were stuck with a shit contract that cost us a 1st to dump.

I don't want to be in that situation again.

[iblastoff]

After I pointed out league average TS, your goalpost adjusted justification for “good and very good” was basically….“ that’s perfectly fine for a shitty team”. I’m just pointing out how expectations have been seriously lowered around here.

someone already corrected your TS% argument but you conveniently chose to ignore it i guess.

league average BY POSITION:
PG: 55.1%

its only PF and centers who are > 58%

and if we want to nitpick further, pascal is technically also under 58% TS. oh no! trade him!

[planetmars]

If he keeps playing like this we may have to. Could be Demarre Carroll all over again.

We signed Demarre when he was 29, same age Fred will be next season, and that's when his game fell off a fucking cliff and we were stuck with a shit contract that cost us a 1st to dump.

I don't want to be in that situation again.

It's a gamble.. but Fred's peak was all-star. DeMarre's was not. Fred also brings other qualities like leadership that Carrol did not. I think he can still be tradeable on his next deal, even if there are 3 years left on it.

[Primer]

It's a gamble.. but Fred's peak was all-star. DeMarre's was not. Fred also brings other qualities like leadership that Carrol did not. I think he can still be tradeable on his next deal, even if there are 3 years left on it.

Really depends how much money he wants too. I don't think he deserves Herro money with the way he's playing.

I just hope Fred opts into his player option if we don't trade him. Gives him a year to build his value back and if he doesn't we're not stuck.

[golden]

Really depends how much money he wants too. I don't think he deserves Herro money with the way he's playing.

I just hope Fred opts into his player option if we don't trade him. Gives him a year to build his value back and if he doesn't we're not stuck.

Just wondering under what scenario would Fred opt into his player option? Wouldn't he at least opt-out & try to sign a 1+1 at a higher AAV, if his value was that low ($23M/yr)?

[Primer]

Just wondering under what scenario would Fred opt into his player option? Wouldn't he at least opt-out & try to sign a 1+1 at a higher AAV, if his value was that low ($23M/yr)?

It doesn't seem likely.

[LJ2]

I'm curious what you guys think of Fred's impact on this team. With Pascal having another All NBA season, OG a career year with talks of DPOY, Trent playing as well as he did last season, but it still hasn't resulted in the type of wins most expected. Seemingly, Fred playing poorly has a bigger impact on wins and loses than when Pascal, OG or Trent play poorly.

Last season with Pascal out and OG got injured early, a healthy Fred was the consistent presence that was able to keep this team afloat. I just wonder if he does more than what we see or give him credit for and is closer to providing the type of impact on wins/loses that Lowry did.

[Puffer]

I'm curious what you guys think of Fred's impact on this team. With Pascal having another All NBA season, OG a career year with talks of DPOY, Trent playing as well as he did last season, but it still hasn't resulted in the type of wins most expected. Seemingly, Fred playing poorly has a bigger impact on wins and loses than when Pascal, OG or Trent play poorly.

Last season with Pascal out and OG got injured early, a healthy Fred was the consistent presence that was able to keep this team afloat. I just wonder if he does more than what we see or give him credit for and is closer to providing the type of impact on wins/loses that Lowry did.

I thought I have read relatively recently that he has the highest impact stats on the team. Can't swear to it, but I think I saw that.

[Bonus Jonas]

The more I think about the Daniels+1st offer the more intriguing it gets

[G__Deane]

I'm curious what you guys think of Fred's impact on this team. With Pascal having another All NBA season, OG a career year with talks of DPOY, Trent playing as well as he did last season, but it still hasn't resulted in the type of wins most expected. Seemingly, Fred playing poorly has a bigger impact on wins and loses than when Pascal, OG or Trent play poorly.

Last season with Pascal out and OG got injured early, a healthy Fred was the consistent presence that was able to keep this team afloat. I just wonder if he does more than what we see or give him credit for and is closer to providing the type of impact on wins/loses that Lowry did.

Fred has struggled but the whole team shooting horribly from three was a big contrbutor, Boucher regressing, Achiuwa injured etc
It's not as simple as the team is struggling and Fred sucks therefore Fred is great

[slaw]

I'm curious what you guys think of Fred's impact on this team. With Pascal having another All NBA season, OG a career year with talks of DPOY, Trent playing as well as he did last season, but it still hasn't resulted in the type of wins most expected. Seemingly, Fred playing poorly has a bigger impact on wins and loses than when Pascal, OG or Trent play poorly.

Last season with Pascal out and OG got injured early, a healthy Fred was the consistent presence that was able to keep this team afloat. I just wonder if he does more than what we see or give him credit for and is closer to providing the type of impact on wins/loses that Lowry did.

Who is Fred's back up?

[LJ2]

Fred has struggled but the whole team shooting horribly from three was a big contrbutor, Boucher regressing, Achiuwa injured etc
It's not as simple as the team is struggling and Fred sucks therefore Fred is great

Yeah not saying that is what it equates to, but impact wise I think there are a lot of things Fred does, like Lowry did, which help the team win. We were able to sustain injuries and bad play from other key members while Fred was playing well. It's not been the same the other way around. The defense alone has been awful with Fred not able to keep his man in front of him.

[slaw]

The more I think about the Daniels+1st offer the more intriguing it gets

I haven't seen any of Daniels to comment on him in particular but that seems like a very weak return for the only guy on the Raps that does 98,473 things that they need done. Not unless there are lots of other changes coming.

[LJ2]

Who is Fred's back up?

Still no proper back up for Fred. I was really hoping they would have tried to get Rubio or Patty Mills in the offseason. They doubled down on more forwards with the idea of Pascal and Scottie being the back up's for Fred with guys like Juancho, Porter and Thad back filling for Scottie and Pascal during those minutes. Not a good idea. Fred may not be a true PG, but there is a big drop off between him and Scottie/Pascal in that skill set.