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  • Tyler Herro signed a 4 year / $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Heat, including $120,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $30,000,000. In 2023-24, Herro will earn a base salary of $27,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $27,000,000 and a dead cap value of $27,000,000.
    This is what VanVleet is hoping he will get or more from his stupid suitors.

    Herro is 23 vs. VanVleet is 29 years who will turn 30 years old on Feb. 25, 2024.

    If Rich Paul and VanVleet are wise, a No Trade Clause should be added in.

    So team is stuck with him until he reaches 34 years old with a Back Brace

    Watching him chucking night in and night out and stand there like a pylon at the point of attack.
    Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Mon Jun 19, 2023, 12:24 PM.

    Comment


    • G____Deane wrote: View Post

      The disconnect I have is highlighted. I get that the cap triple and you spend somewhere around triple. But everyone automatically getting the exact same percentage raise is kinda wonky. Why not (in some cases) decide to bring in a better alternate player for 20M as an example?

      Using that example of Fred being the same 10 and $30M player, maybe the team is better with a younger more upside $20M player and a $10M better bench player.

      Spending the money on the same roster just gets you the same (more expensive) results.
      There are a couple of answers to this but a main one in my view relates to bird rights and a team operating above the cap. You can exceed the cap to keep your own players using their bird rights. But you don’t get that money to spend if they walk and you are over the cap. So if FVV signs elsewhere you can’t go get a 20 million and a 10 million dollar guy. The option is pay him and keep him/trade him or just drop down from a $160 million roster to a $130 million roster on a $133 million cap.

      Comment


      • DanH wrote: View Post

        Yes, and all that math exists in the framework of what the cap is! That's the point!

        You can't just say you think a certain type of player is worth 10M regardless of whether the cap is 50M or 150M!
        Maybe a slightly different point than Deaner was making, but just because you think the cap is going to rise 50%, you shouldn’t just reflexively pay every guy 50% more and hope their contracts grow into a value deals.

        You start collecting too many of those faux stars at the top end of their market value and you end up exactly where the Raptors are… no man’s land, with little flexibility to get out. It’s even difficult to blow it up for picks, because other teams don’t value your players at the contract value you signed them.

        Comment


        • People are trying their hardest to soften the crash landing of Masai Ujiri for not trading VanVleet when his value at its highest OR the very least traded him at The deadline no matter what the return might be INSTEAD of him just walking away.

          Masai with Zero Leverage is hoping The slim possibility of a Sign and Trade which is a gift/ a cushion to that inevitable crash.

          Overpaying him and then plan to trade him down the road is the most dumbest move, a player with declining skills at both ends of the court. He just hired a developmental coaching staff. How can this coach from the Grizzlies organization reset a scenario with Ja Morant as the center core then having a declining Mike Conley run around and taking those possessions. Thankfully Grizz org were wise enough to allow Ja to flourish. But that will most likely happen with Barnes a totally different mindset opposite to a newly minted $30 million dollar man VanVleet with an alpha mentality going forward.

          this talk of limiting VanVleet’s usage and possessions is fantasy,

          I have NO DOUBT that Hackett and company would have the ultra-convenience to blame Darko if he cannot reign in VanVleet to back off and be the third fiddle behind Scottie/ OG and possibly Siakam
          Last edited by The Claw Reborn; Mon Jun 19, 2023, 01:01 PM.

          Comment


          • golden wrote: View Post

            Maybe a slightly different point than Deaner was making, but just because you think the cap is going to rise 50%, you shouldn’t just reflexively pay every guy 50% more and hope their contracts grow into a value deals.

            You start collecting too many of those faux stars at the top end of their market value and you end up exactly where the Raptors are… no man’s land, with little flexibility to get out. It’s even difficult to blow it up for picks, because other teams don’t value your players at the contract value you signed them.
            Exactly

            although as mentioned we dont just get the extra if he walks its a step towards money to spend

            they shudda traded him at the deadline even for 3 second rounders and an expiring if that was the best offer. Then a thad waive a pascal trade for some salary expiring and picks a good prospect and then we’re closer to being able to spend

            lock down scottie and og. Get a solid starter out of pascal and this draft. Wait for a pick/bench guy or two to excel then jump on a fa or two

            Comment


            • golden wrote: View Post

              Maybe a slightly different point than Deaner was making, but just because you think the cap is going to rise 50%, you shouldn’t just reflexively pay every guy 50% more and hope their contracts grow into a value deals.

              You start collecting too many of those faux stars at the top end of their market value and you end up exactly where the Raptors are… no man’s land, with little flexibility to get out. It’s even difficult to blow it up for picks, because other teams don’t value your players at the contract value you signed them.
              Agreed on the first point.

              Do you think the Raps ahve any bad contracts? Pascal's is commensurate with his performance - lots of teams will give him a max. OG's salary is probably a slight underpay(?). The Fred and Trent situations are where the rubber hits the road. If you sign them then you're going all-in with this group.

              Comment


              • Did I accidentally delete my signature? LOL….maybe a really,really bad omen that he stays.

                Comment


                • G____Deane wrote: View Post

                  The disconnect I have is highlighted. I get that the cap triple and you spend somewhere around triple. But everyone automatically getting the exact same percentage raise is kinda wonky. Why not (in some cases) decide to bring in a better alternate player for 20M as an example?

                  Using that example of Fred being the same 10 and $30M player, maybe the team is better with a younger more upside $20M player and a $10M better bench player.

                  Spending the money on the same roster just gets you the same (more expensive) results.
                  Right, but that's true regardless of the cap. Maybe in the first scenario, the team is better off not giving Fred 10M and instead finding a younger more upside 7M player and a 3M better bench player.

                  It really does all just scale up! This is how the NBA works! I promise you!
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

                  Comment


                  • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                    This is what VanVleet is hoping he will get or more from his stupid suitors.

                    Herro is 23 vs. VanVleet is 29 years who will turn 30 years old on Feb. 25, 2024.

                    If Rich Paul and VanVleet are wise, a No Trade Clause should be added in.

                    So team is stuck with him until he reaches 34 years old with a Back Brace

                    Watching him chucking night in and night out and stand there like a pylon at the point of attack.
                    LOL no team is giving him a no trade clause. Heck, he's not even eligible for one.

                    But yes, that's the price point they want and will likely get. We'll see if they come up slightly short, or if they settle for shorter term, though I think Fred would be better off to take a lower AAV to get a longer 4 or 5 year deal. This is his payday summer, best cash in.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

                    Comment


                    • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
                      It depends on the player of course. Shroder is a good example his salary fell off a cliff even though cap is constantly going up
                      Sure, but that would have happened whether the cap went up or not. There is always the matter of player evaluation and interest. But if there is interest, of course the money associated with the level of interest will be relative to the cap.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Maybe a slightly different point than Deaner was making, but just because you think the cap is going to rise 50%, you shouldn’t just reflexively pay every guy 50% more and hope their contracts grow into a value deals.

                        You start collecting too many of those faux stars at the top end of their market value and you end up exactly where the Raptors are… no man’s land, with little flexibility to get out. It’s even difficult to blow it up for picks, because other teams don’t value your players at the contract value you signed them.
                        The only thing I'm saying, is that you have to evaluate value on the scale of the cap.

                        Pretending that a player who is worth 20M in a 50M cap is also worth 20M in a 150M cap is ridiculous on the face of it.

                        Yes, you should always consider how to distribute your salary for your team. This is true. But it is true primarily when looking at salaries as a percentage of the cap. Not just picking a number that feels right and never adjusting that in spite of the league wide player value changing due to a new cap level.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

                        Comment


                        • slaw wrote: View Post

                          Agreed on the first point.

                          Do you think the Raps ahve any bad contracts? Pascal's is commensurate with his performance - lots of teams will give him a max. OG's salary is probably a slight underpay(?). The Fred and Trent situations are where the rubber hits the road. If you sign them then you're going all-in with this group.
                          Hard to say Raptors have any outright “bad” contracts, but they certainly don’t have any “great” contracts either, which is what gives you the flexibility to make moves.

                          And if the strategy is to overpay initially and wait for the last few years for those contracts to become value, then you’ve also lost contact length, which is highly valuable to a trade partner. We just saw this play out at the trade deadline, with all our guys not being worth much, despite it being a sellers market. OG is/was probably the best value contract we have/had, but he’s only got 1 year left until UFA, so he’s already devalued as a rental and a flight risk.

                          Comment


                          • DanH wrote: View Post

                            The only thing I'm saying, is that you have to evaluate value on the scale of the cap.

                            Pretending that a player who is worth 20M in a 50M cap is also worth 20M in a 150M cap is ridiculous on the face of it.

                            Yes, you should always consider how to distribute your salary for your team. This is true. But it is true primarily when looking at salaries as a percentage of the cap. Not just picking a number that feels right and never adjusting that in spite of the league wide player value changing due to a new cap level.
                            The number you pick should be based on replacement cost and overall team construct/system/chemistry.

                            Like, if I can get a guy (eg. Shake Milton) who can do at least 75% of what Fred is allowed to do, for 1/3rd of the cost (or less), then I’m letting Fred walk and using that extra $20M/yr saved to bolster the roster elsewhere.

                            Combo guard is not that hard to replace and highly influenced by how much the coach allows said combo guard to control the offense.

                            Comment


                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              The number you pick should be based on replacement cost and overall team construct/system/chemistry.

                              Like, if I can get a guy (eg. Shake Milton) who can do at least 75% of what Fred is allowed to do, for 1/3rd of the cost (or less), then I’m letting Fred walk and using that extra $20M/yr saved to bolster the roster elsewhere.

                              Combo guard is not that hard to replace and highly influenced by how much the coach allows said combo guard to control the offense.
                              This is fine if that's what you think. It's not really the discussion I was having though.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • golden wrote: View Post

                                Maybe a slightly different point than Deaner was making, but just because you think the cap is going to rise 50%, you shouldn’t just reflexively pay every guy 50% more and hope their contracts grow into a value deals.

                                You start collecting too many of those faux stars at the top end of their market value and you end up exactly where the Raptors are… no man’s land, with little flexibility to get out. It’s even difficult to blow it up for picks, because other teams don’t value your players at the contract value you signed them.
                                Pretty much what I've been poorly trying to say. Constantly paying more for the same players just because the cap goes up and then hoping for better results is crazy.

                                Comment

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