Everything Kawhi Leonard

[The Great One]

So.

Kobe and Kawhi pic.twitter.com/JP7finY3b9

— Marc J. Spears (@MarcJSpearsESPN) September 14, 2018

Kawhi Leonard is a Toronto Raptor. Still feels unreal lol.

[KeonClark]

Kawhi Leonard is a Toronto Raptor. Still feels unreal lol.

The best raptor debate becomes even more cloudy

Greatest raptor? Vince
Most valuable? Lowry
Best career here? Demar
Most talented to ever suit up? Soon to be kawhi

[LJ2]

The best raptor debate becomes even more cloudy

Greatest raptor? Vince
Most valuable? Lowry
Best career here? Demar
Most talented to ever suit up? Soon to be kawhi

He's going to have to put in more than one season for me to acknowledge him as one of the top Raptors all time. And VC is the most talented to ever suit up. Purely on talent only.

[Hotshot]

He's going to have to put in more than one season for me to acknowledge him as one of the top Raptors all time. And VC is the most talented to ever suit up. Purely on talent only.

If Kawhi talents bring the Raptors to the finals then yeah he will be.

[ReubenJRD]

He's going to have to put in more than one season for me to acknowledge him as one of the top Raptors all time. And VC is the most talented to ever suit up. Purely on talent only.

I agree. Vince is easily the most talented Raptor ever.

DeMar has never been in the conversation of the best players in the league -- MVP candidate, sure, but he's not in the conversation year in, year out with the likes of LeBron/KD/Kawhi.

Vince, briefly if I must add, was in the conversation with Iverson and Kobe as the best players in the league. DeMar never really touched that conversation.

DeMar had the best tenure, and was a catalyst to the success here, but never really showed up in the post-season, which will always be the stain on his time here that prevents him from ranking above VC overall in my opinion.

[ReubenJRD]

If Kawhi has a massive season here, gets to the Finals, and re-signs, he'd shoot himself right up those rankings really quick.

Again, I said it in another thread. Toronto has never really had a top-3 player in his prime. This is entirely new territory, and I feel a lot of fans/analysts are being careful with their optimism.

[KeonClark]

He's going to have to put in more than one season for me to acknowledge him as one of the top Raptors all time. And VC is the most talented to ever suit up. Purely on talent only.

Vince may be the most talented, but that really means diddly squat. Kawhi is far and way a better basketball player

I mean skip to my lou was way more talented than shaq. You gonna pick rafer Alston over shaq in his prime?

[LJ2]

Vince may be the most talented, but that really means diddly squat. Kawhi is far and way a better basketball player

I mean skip to my lou was way more talented than shaq. You gonna pick rafer Alston over shaq in his prime?

In what planet was Rafer Alston more talented than Shaq? You might be confusing talent with skill.

Talent is natural god given abilities. Skill is something you develop through hard work.

[LJ2]

If Kawhi talents bring the Raptors to the finals then yeah he will be.

That sir is a dangerous line of thinking . Let's see him play a game post injury, on a new team to see how good he is. I'm guilty of this myself, but we should all reign in our expectations until Kawhi actually plays like the player we're all thinking he will be.

[KeonClark]

In what planet was Rafer Alston more talented than Shaq? You might be confusing talent with skill.

Talent is natural god given abilities. Skill is something you develop through hard work.

Now you're just getting into straw man semantics and I dont feel like going down that rabbit hole.

My point remains, whether Vince was more talented than Kawhi means dick. Kawhi is far better than Vince. Thats all that matters.

[LJ2]

Now you're just getting into straw man semantics and I dont feel like going down that rabbit hole.

My point remains, whether Vince was more talented than Kawhi means dick. Kawhi is far better than Vince. Thats all that matters.

That I can agree with. Kawhi has done a lot more with his talents than VC ever did.

[The Great One]

Clips #1, Raps #2, Lakers #3

Kawhi Leonard rumors: Lakers on Raptors star's radar for 2019 free agency, but they're last on his listhttps://t.co/5lVjEFkpeE

— CBS Sports NBA (@CBSSportsNBA) September 15, 2018

[Scraptor]

Vince may be the most talented, but that really means diddly squat. Kawhi is far and way a better basketball player

I mean skip to my lou was way more talented than shaq. You gonna pick rafer Alston over shaq in his prime?

The first part of your post is 100% right.

But comparing Rafer Alston to Shaq was only going to confuse everybody lol. Alston was not more talented than Shaq, Shaq was super talented and lazy. He's not a Kawhi, he's a Vince. Alston is... an Alston.

It all depends on how you define the words. Semantics are the most important part of this debate. I would say the ranks are like this:

Greatest (performance + longevity): DeRozan
Most (natural) talent: Carter
Most (developed) skilled: Kawhi
Best overall mix of talent and skill: Kawhi

[Scraptor]

DeMar had the best tenure, and was a catalyst to the success here, but never really showed up in the post-season, which will always be the stain on his time here that prevents him from ranking above VC overall in my opinion.

Vince didn't show up for Game 7 of our most critical game in our history to that point, because he chose to go to his graduation. He shot 33% from the field and 45%TS.

DeRozan put up 21/4/4 on 50% TS in the playoffs over 51 games.

Carter put up 26/6/5 on 51% TS over 15 playoff games.

Carter was better in the playoffs, but like their careers, his slightly better performance doesn't outweigh the longevity of DeMar. DeMar has 3x the playoff points as Vince (1117 vs 385) and 40% more regular season points.

It's unfortunate that we've never had a true superstar for an entire career, but I rank a committed secondary star over a lazy uncommitted superstar who moaned his way out of town.

[Hotshot]

Vince didn't show up for Game 7 of our most critical game in our history to that point, because he chose to go to his graduation. He shot 33% from the field and 45%TS.

I think this argument needs to be dropped. Its a moot point as we have no idea at times what other players do in their spare times vs how dedicate they were. Even if Vince was dedicated, he might still would have had a bad game (he did score 50 points in that series in one of those games, most by any Raptor during a playoffs series).

Also case at point , Michael Jordan used to party and gamble late at nights during playoffs games but somehow escaped the scrutiny cause he showed up when it counted.