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  • TRex wrote: View Post
    Clips #1, Raps #2, Lakers #3

    Kawhi Leonard rumors: Lakers on Raptors star's radar for 2019 free agency, but they're last on his listhttps://t.co/5lVjEFkpeE

    — CBS Sports NBA (@CBSSportsNBA) September 15, 2018
    So, has Ramona actually heard from Kawhi himself or his agent? If not, for better or worse it's just speculating like everyone else.
    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

    Comment


    • Scraptor wrote: View Post
      Vince didn't show up for Game 7 of our most critical game in our history to that point, because he chose to go to his graduation. He shot 33% from the field and 45%TS.

      DeRozan put up 21/4/4 on 50% TS in the playoffs over 51 games.

      Carter put up 26/6/5 on 51% TS over 15 playoff games.

      Carter was better in the playoffs, but like their careers, his slightly better performance doesn't outweigh the longevity of DeMar. DeMar has 3x the playoff points as Vince (1117 vs 385) and 40% more regular season points.

      It's unfortunate that we've never had a true superstar for an entire career, but I rank a committed secondary star over a lazy uncommitted superstar who moaned his way out of town.
      Regardless, though, whether one was more committed, or if one was better in the playoffs, etc.

      DeRozan had a great impact here, a catalyst for five years of winning regular seasons, playoffs, including the farthest stage reached in the Eastern Conference Finals. No one was arguing against what DeRozan meant to the organization. He turned himself into the face of the franchise.

      But, Vince Carter had such a huge impact on basketball in the country that it's just so hard for me to put anyone over him. Playing for Toronto meant playing for Canada, and the country had a real taste of what a superstar is/was, and the attention that it brings. DeRozan was never in that conversation, hence the complaints of media attention and the lack thereof.

      Vince was one of the most exciting players to ever play the game, if not the most, considering many of his highlights are things that have never been done in-game or have rarely been done.

      When you hear the Canadian NBA players talk about Carter's influence, to me, it's a no-brainer -- as much as I loved DeRozan and what he did for Toronto, hindsight is 20/20. I was among the group saying "DeRozan is the best," "he deserves a statute before VC," etc. etc. etc.

      But, the impact from VC has just left a longer lasting effect on the Raptors (were great with him, terrible without him), basketball in the country, etc. The Raptors got better by getting rid of DeRozan, however way you wanna spin how the deal went down.

      Comment


      • inthepaint wrote: View Post
        So, has Ramona actually heard from Kawhi himself or his agent? If not, for better or worse it's just speculating like everyone else.
        They used to laugh, call us fools! They are starting to believe!

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        • Going from no chance in hell, to 2nd place is pretty cool. I always thought it was going to be LAC over LAL anyway. I just didn't think Kawhi wanted to play next to Lebron or get all the attention that being a Laker gives you. He can be the best player on a Clipper team and still play in LA.

          LAC will be bad though next year.. and maybe that will keep him in Toronto. The Logo is such a tough businessman though.

          Masai vs Jerry West will be quite the battle next summer.

          Comment


          • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
            They used to laugh, call us fools! They are starting to believe!
            It's a safe bet, actually. Aside from L.A., consdering Kawhi's camp has said they'll be making the most of the opportunity, of course Toronto would be the "second" option. He's playing on the team, and unless sometimes goes totally wrong, Toronto will always be in the running.

            Comment


            • Scraptor wrote: View Post
              The first part of your post is 100% right.

              But comparing Rafer Alston to Shaq was only going to confuse everybody lol. Alston was not more talented than Shaq, Shaq was super talented and lazy. He's not a Kawhi, he's a Vince. Alston is... an Alston.

              It all depends on how you define the words. Semantics are the most important part of this debate. I would say the ranks are like this:

              Greatest (performance + longevity): DeRozan
              Most (natural) talent: Carter
              Most (developed) skilled: Kawhi
              Best overall mix of talent and skill: Kawhi
              For Greatest I have Lowry over both DeRozan and Vince.

              DeRozan's stats look way better but Kyle had a bigger impact on wins than DeMar did during Masai's tenure. And Lowry surpassed Vince for me last year. A key contributor in a 59 win team.. and was one of our best players in the playoffs despite the loss/sweep to the Cavs again.

              DeRozan is far more loyal than Kyle. He was drafted by the Raptors. He reps the city as much as anyone can. Never even bothered testing out the market in free agency. And was upset that he was traded. But for me "greatest" has more to do with what have you done to help us win games.

              For me it's:

              1) Lowry
              2) Vince
              3) DeMar


              Kawhi in his prime is better than all three from a talent point of view.. but at this point he's nothing more than Alonzo Mourning. Need to see him play some games before we can move him up (or even on) any GOAT Raptor ladder.

              Comment


              • Who really gives a shit who was/is/might have been better in some convoluted fantasy world where comparing Carter to Leonard even makes sense.

                You haven't even seen Leonard lay yet.
                Lots of you never really saw Vince.... you're too young to remember.

                ugh

                Comment


                • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                  Who really gives a shit who was/is/might have been better in some convoluted fantasy world where comparing Carter to Leonard even makes sense.

                  You haven't even seen Leonard lay yet.
                  Lots of you never really saw Vince.... you're too young to remember.

                  ugh
                  i remember i first started watching right after that crazy dunk contest and i've been a fan since. the vince days were nutty.... and honestly i loved the bosh days too. but there were years it was tough. I was always hopeful. Demar is good ... i'd say overall i'd rank him higher than vince but thats mainly based on loyalty. If I were to assign who is the BEST ... vince hands down. I might even say BOSH skill wise was better than demar... which he was and he had less obvious flaws/weaknesses.


                  I think overall in terms of everything taken into consideration demar ranks above them both. Right now I would have him as #1 and lowry as second followed by vince and bosh....

                  Comment


                  • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                    Now you're just getting into straw man semantics and I dont feel like going down that rabbit hole.

                    My point remains, whether Vince was more talented than Kawhi means dick. Kawhi is far better than Vince. Thats all that matters.

                    Comment


                    • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                      not tryna pick sides in this argument

                      but I don’t think it’s considered strawman if it’s something you actually said is it? You said Alston was more talented than shaq and he disagreed, that’s just fundamentally disagreeing, don’t think it’s a strawman

                      strawman would’ve been like if he said “well then you probably think Nate Robinson is more talented than Kawhi which is absurd!” since he’s arguing against something that you didn’t even say
                      You're not wrong Bonus. "Words have meanings."

                      Comment


                      • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                        Who really gives a shit who was/is/might have been better in some convoluted fantasy world where comparing Carter to Leonard even makes sense.

                        You haven't even seen Leonard lay yet.
                        Lots of you never really saw Vince.... you're too young to remember.

                        ugh
                        I'm 31 and fell in love with vince Carter and basketball in 1999 suck it judge
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                        Comment


                        • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          That I can agree with. Kawhi has done a lot more with his talents than VC ever did.
                          kawhi is a top 5 , vince at his best was top 10

                          Comment


                          • TRex wrote: View Post
                            Clips #1, Raps #2, Lakers #3

                            "Raptors star's radar"
                            ....still makes me smile ....."Raptor's star"

                            Comment


                            • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                              "Raptors star's radar"
                              ....still makes me smile ....."Raptor's star"
                              Still hasn't completely sunk in

                              Comment


                              • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                                Still hasn't completely sunk in
                                Not until the first day of the season.

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