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Everything Bargnani

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  • Everything Bargnani

    a pretty thought out and well witten article from the sun.

    it's bargnani's time to shine, will he show up?

    http://www.torontosun.com/sports/bas.../14523631.html
    7
    Yes
    42.86%
    3
    No
    57.14%
    4
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  • #2
    I personally don't think he can carry a team to success as the franchise guy any more than Bosh could. I think this new era beginning will have to resemble more of what the Pistons did, relying on a bunch of guys working together to reach a goal as opposed to a bunch of guys serving a star to reach a goal. I'm fine with it but people need to wake up and stop setting unrealistic expectations on a guy who has done nothing to indicate he can live up to them.

    The future is collectively in the hands of Bargnani, DeRozan and Davis, with others supporting their quest. Just one of them breaking through won't be enough.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think Bargnani's ceiling is as a 2nd option on offence and, unfortunately, as someone who will always need his teammates to bail him out defensively. He might get marginally better defensively next year but I just can't see him thriving as a #1 option offensively. He's a spot-up shooter with an ability to drive if 1) his defender is slower than him (i.e. a 5 more often than a 4 in the current NBA) and 2) the opposition isn't clogging the paint (which they generally weren't when they had Chris Bosh to worry about). Oh, and if you thought Chris Bosh had trouble setting up teammates, look at Bargnani's assist #'s. While I think Bargnani is reasonably tough mentally (although maybe he's just disinterested), I don't think he's got the skills to be a #1 guy. Might not even be a #2 considering his defensive problems.

      Long story short, this team needs to find a #1 guy on offence. I think that means they need to look in the lottery for the next few years.

      Comment


      • #4
        To me, much of the Raps future with the core as it is depends on chemistry to create that value-added, or 2+2=5 kinda deal. If Derozan, Weems, Johnson and Bargnani can not only get comfortable playing with each other, but really enjoy it, then there are a lot of complimentary skills that this core posses that can really add up to make the team play a lot better on the court than they look like on paper. Essentially, the reverse of what we've been hearing the last few years about how "on paper, this is a 50 win team."

        Add Davis to the mix and we get a frontcourt axis that can grow to be dominant in the not too distant future. How this all goes down for success in the Bargnani-era is a getting a scoring 3 and a defensive and distributive point who can knock down the open J and who really understands the game of basketball. Spreading it around, playing as a team, and being built collectively around individual strengths and weaknesses is how the "Bargnani-era" should look. In this scenario there are no true #1 options, but 3-4 players who can go off a rack up the points in a given game, the rest understanding the flow of the game and playing their role, all with an eye for defense.
        Last edited by jeff_hostetler; Sat Jun 26th, 2010, 03:46 PM. Reason: better

        Comment


        • #5
          yeah the idea about surrounding bargnani with defensive players to make his weak defense seam less weak doesnt make sense. Obviously, with Davis and possibly Johnson playing the 4 Bargnani is going to be our center next year which again means that when players get into the paint which they will no matter how good your perimeter defense is well have Bargnani there to step out of the way and let them go uncontested. Bargnani should stop looking at Nowitzki's game and start looking at Gasol's game.

          Comment


          • #6
            When you're the #1 option on a team you're also the #1 focus of the defense.
            Without Bosh commanding a double team will Bargnani get so many open 3s?
            How long will it take for the "Il Mago" passing skills to show up?
            Has Bargs ever faced a double team in the NBA?
            How much will his rebounding improve?
            With so many questions it's hard to get excited about Bargnani as our franchise player

            Comment


            • #7
              how many times do we have to go through with this.......theres no way in hell that bargs can be a #1 option on a teams that will have sucess, theres just no way......he couldnt even provide consistency last year by being the second option so why would he be better as a #1 with even more pressure on him.....all thats going to change is thats hes going to get more shots and who knows how the hell thats going to turn out and when your the number one guy on a team alot is also expected of you on defence and we all know what a stud bargs in at that end, jesus he was constanly lost on help defence all season so give me a break if were relying on bargs as our saviour, were in big trouble

              Comment


              • #8
                he will not show up, there is 0 chance in it happening. Theres no point in even arguing this or giving reasons behind it, he has no IQ, never looks to pass, cannot pass out of a double team. I dont see how the team can succeed with him as the 1 option. he also sucks at defense. Essentially, were screwed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Apollo said it wisely. This should not be about one star carrying the team, but rather a chance to build a team that plays together, shares the ball, and learns to trust and rely on each other. Liking each other would also help. Bargnani if handed a leading role will not do any worse than Bosh has for sure. Bosh has accomplished absolutely nothing here other than to build his own stats.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How can Bargs even be a #1 option if he can't even create his own scoring chances? Can you you win playoff games with Bargnani being your second best player? Is Bargnani brutal rebounding and overall bad defensive game allow him to be even a starter unless the team is loaded?

                    IMO he shouldn't be your first or even second option on offence, but he can be starter in the NBA if he can at least somewhat improve his terrible rebounding.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      I personally don't think he can carry a team to success as the franchise guy any more than Bosh could. I think this new era beginning will have to resemble more of what the Pistons did, relying on a bunch of guys working together to reach a goal as opposed to a bunch of guys serving a star to reach a goal. I'm fine with it but people need to wake up and stop setting unrealistic expectations on a guy who has done nothing to indicate he can live up to them.

                      The future is collectively in the hands of Bargnani, DeRozan and Davis, with others supporting their quest. Just one of them breaking through won't be enough.
                      i have3 the same thoughts as you but also remember there will always be one guy who outshines all others and so to speak "leads" the team like with detroit they had a lot of good players, but, chauncey billups was their leader, as seen when he was traded.

                      you could also look at that washington team, butler, jamison, arenas. even thought they never one anything they had 3 real good players on their team but arenas outshined them all and was the leader.

                      the same thing i believe can be done with toronto maybe with bargnani outshining all others. the reason we couldn't do it with bosh is because he would get jealous. with bargnani i doubt he cares thus i think getting rid of bosh will help us to take that step forward.
                      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pizzaman wrote: View Post
                        Apollo said it wisely. This should not be about one star carrying the team, but rather a chance to build a team that plays together, shares the ball, and learns to trust and rely on each other. Liking each other would also help. Bargnani if handed a leading role will not do any worse than Bosh has for sure. Bosh has accomplished absolutely nothing here other than to build his own stats.
                        Unlike Bosh, Bargnani cannot be go-to score, one 70% of his baskets are assisted and two he has terrible footwork so he won't be able to post up PFs or Cs. Bargnani at this point is who he is, a good shooter who can get hot at times but most of the time gives back whatever he scores with his rebounding and poor help defence. If he can improve on the boards and maybe learn how/when to give help defence than Bargnani will not hurt is team when he is on the floor.

                        That to me isn't the blueprint for a leader on any basketball team.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          LBF wrote: View Post
                          i have3 the same thoughts as you but also remember there will always be one guy who outshines all others and so to speak "leads" the team like with detroit they had a lot of good players, but, chauncey billups was their leader, as seen when he was traded.

                          you could also look at that washington team, butler, jamison, arenas. even thought they never one anything they had 3 real good players on their team but arenas outshined them all and was the leader.

                          the same thing i believe can be done with toronto maybe with bargnani outshining all others. the reason we couldn't do it with bosh is because he would get jealous. with bargnani i doubt he cares thus i think getting rid of bosh will help us to take that step forward.
                          So the reason Bargnani was extremely inconsistent, averaged 6 boards a game as 7 footer, and had one of the worst Defensive rating in the NBA was so Bosh wouldn't be jealous of him???? Or maybe Bargnani didn't out-shined anybody because he isn't good enough? I don't know I think the second option is more plausible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Babyface_killah wrote: View Post
                            Unlike Bosh, Bargnani cannot be go-to score, one 70% of his baskets are assisted and two he has terrible footwork so he won't be able to post up PFs or Cs. Bargnani at this point is who he is, a good shooter who can get hot at times but most of the time gives back whatever he scores with his rebounding and poor help defence. If he can improve on the boards and maybe learn how/when to give help defence than Bargnani will not hurt is team when he is on the floor.

                            That to me isn't the blueprint for a leader on any basketball team.
                            Babyface_killah wrote: View Post
                            So the reason Bargnani was extremely inconsistent, averaged 6 boards a game as 7 footer, and had one of the worst Defensive rating in the NBA was so Bosh wouldn't be jealous of him???? Or maybe Bargnani didn't out-shined anybody because he isn't good enough? I don't know I think the second option is more plausible.
                            i don't understand why you are still sticking up for Rupaul!? you are completely missing the point and arguing just for the sake of arguing.

                            Now before your panties crawl any further up your ass let me explain. All i'm saying is if everything left in the artcle plays out bargnani is the player who has been with the raps the longest.

                            it seems right to hand him the "franchise" tag, out of well obviousness as who else could we give it to? not saying he is the bosh type franchise player, but maybe he'll turn out to be.

                            it'll be like okc where all those guys play their asses off but it's centred around one guy that earns his way and sticks out. in that case it's kevin durant who it will be for the raptors remains to be seen but it looks like it'll be bargnani before anybody else.

                            I don't know how to explain it really. but, i'm not arguing with you. i hope this helps.
                            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              blaze89 wrote: View Post
                              how many times do we have to go through with this.......theres no way in hell that bargs can be a #1 option on a teams that will have sucess, theres just no way......he couldnt even provide consistency last year by being the second option so why would he be better as a #1 with even more pressure on him.....all thats going to change is thats hes going to get more shots and who knows how the hell thats going to turn out and when your the number one guy on a team alot is also expected of you on defence and we all know what a stud bargs in at that end, jesus he was constanly lost on help defence all season so give me a break if were relying on bargs as our saviour, were in big trouble
                              Agreed 100%. When Bosh was out he had a chance and produced nothing. I hope he is not our number one option. Davis and Amir should be fun to watch next year.

                              Comment

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