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Let's squash this Jimmer lovefest once and for all

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  • Let's squash this Jimmer lovefest once and for all

    Not much of a passer, can't play D and can't create his own shot.

    A shorter Redick. Potential to be maybe the third or forth guy off the bench.

    That's it.
    @sweatpantsjer

  • #2
    Don't forget slow. Reeally slow.

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    • #3
      and silly sounding name.

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      • #4
        Can't be any worst than the point guards we have now.

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        • #5
          well, let's not get carried away. he's projected as a late lottery pick, and - depending on the tourney - could either slip or rise...but not substantially in either direction. his faults are well known, but guys who can flat out bomb will ALWAYS have a home somewhere in the NBA. as a mid-1st rounder, i don't think he's a bad choice at all, since it's likely that he'd wind up going to at least a half-decent team that wouldn't need to rely on him to be an impact player.

          he's in a tricky situation right now, kind of reminds me more of curry or jameer nelson in both the type of player he is & the team he's on, much moreso than reddick. i think comparing him to reddick is actually kind of lazy...i really don't see many similarities (from an offensive standpoint) other than the fact that they both are excellent long-range shooters. i see fredette as more of a combo guard/undersized 2 who could develop into a legit PG, perhaps even as a starter if his D can be brought along. but seriously, you can count on one hand the number of bona fide 'good-great' defenders at the point position in the NBA, so as long as he's bringing enough to the table in terms of playmaking & shooting, his D likely won't be an overwhelming factor.

          defense is important at every position, but there are grades of importance, and i personally don't think that it's an absolute necessity to have a great (or even a good) defender at that position, as long as the team is generally strong in that regard. see parker in SA as just one example.
          TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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          • #6
            ceez wrote: View Post
            Not much of a passer, can't play D and can't create his own shot.

            A shorter Redick. Potential to be maybe the third or forth guy off the bench.

            That's it.
            see, this to me is simply a lazy 'analysis'...

            'not much of a passer' isn't wrong, in & of itself, but you have to look at who he's playing with, and his role within the offense (i.e. he IS the offense, by & large).

            'can't play D' - it's so hard to gauge defensive ability not just at the college level, but for PGs at the college level, but i will give you that he's - at best - a below average defender, and likely translates to the same at the pro level. BYU plays a lot of zone, so his shortcomings may be even further hidden. i guess one has to judge how important D is FROM THAT POSITION.

            'can't create his own shot' - well, that's just wrong. the overwhelming majority of his points are unassisted, and his ability to create looks for himself as not only the primary ball-handler but as 'the guy' defenses key on is, actually, quite remarkable.

            at the end of the day, you may well be spot-on about his future in the NBA...but as a mid-1st rounder (or late lottery pick, at best), i'm not sure that - as a worst-case scenario - is actually all that bad. sometimes, we get caught up in what a player can't do, and forget to just focus on whether he can ball or not. dujuan blair: undersized, no ACLs, 'limited' offensively, 'risky' pick...but balls like a mo-fo. i'm not suggesting fredette can be in the pros what he is in college, but i do think that in the right system, he'll be an impact player.
            TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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            • #7
              yertu damkule wrote: View Post
              see, this to me is simply a lazy 'analysis'...

              'not much of a passer' isn't wrong, in & of itself, but you have to look at who he's playing with, and his role within the offense (i.e. he IS the offense, by & large).

              'can't play D' - it's so hard to gauge defensive ability not just at the college level, but for PGs at the college level, but i will give you that he's - at best - a below average defender, and likely translates to the same at the pro level. BYU plays a lot of zone, so his shortcomings may be even further hidden. i guess one has to judge how important D is FROM THAT POSITION.

              'can't create his own shot' - well, that's just wrong. the overwhelming majority of his points are unassisted, and his ability to create looks for himself as not only the primary ball-handler but as 'the guy' defenses key on is, actually, quite remarkable.

              at the end of the day, you may well be spot-on about his future in the NBA...but as a mid-1st rounder (or late lottery pick, at best), i'm not sure that - as a worst-case scenario - is actually all that bad. sometimes, we get caught up in what a player can't do, and forget to just focus on whether he can ball or not. dujuan blair: undersized, no ACLs, 'limited' offensively, 'risky' pick...but balls like a mo-fo. i'm not suggesting fredette can be in the pros what he is in college, but i do think that in the right system, he'll be an impact player.
              Thank you for actually taking time to assess a players ability and not just jump on some hearsay bandwagon. I love Jimmer's game, the guy is a baller. His 4.3 assists per game are pretty solid for the NCAA's, especially for a player who is the team's primary offensive threat. The NCAA leader drops 7.6 dimes per game, not a big gap for a guy who can't pass.

              Jimmer is very crafty with the ball and can more than create his own shot, he has the ability get shots off around the hoop with a variety of step through moves and up and unders, not to mention his range.

              Is the guy a franchise point guard, no, could he be a good starter on a good team like a Jameer Nelson, sure. There have been many PG's that have had long successful NBA careers that were weak in certain areas of their game, but finding the right team and system goes a long way to helping them be successful, will that be in Toronto, who knows, but Jimmer will be an NBA player.
              Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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              • #8
                i really hope byu chokes in the tournament...

                i so badly want "jimmer" to be the new euphemism for my girlfriend's "gag reflex"

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                • #9
                  People underrate the gap in athleticism when making the jump between lower leagues (Euro, NCAA, D-League) and the NBA. There is a huge difference in explosiveness, lateral quickness, brute strength and even physical features (length, reach,....). You saw how Linas Kleiza dominated the Euroleague last year and world championships (except against USA), yet he was getting stuffed at the rim time and time again for the Raps. The difference was the athleticism.

                  The Jimmer will experience a similar thing. Long, athletic guys can play off him, preventing the drive and then close out quickly with length, altering his shot. The Jimmer will need another gear of craftiness to be successful.

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                  • #10
                    golden wrote: View Post
                    People underrate the gap in athleticism when making the jump between lower leagues (Euro, NCAA, D-League) and the NBA. There is a huge difference in explosiveness, lateral quickness, brute strength and even physical features (length, reach,....). You saw how Linas Kleiza dominated the Euroleague last year and world championships (except against USA), yet he was getting stuffed at the rim time and time again for the Raps. The difference was the athleticism.
                    is it at all possible that the difference was the knee injury he apparently suffered in the first pre-season game?

                    golden wrote: View Post
                    The Jimmer will experience a similar thing. Long, athletic guys can play off him, preventing the drive and then close out quickly with length, altering his shot. The Jimmer will need another gear of craftiness to be successful.
                    that's entirely possible. but the guy has shown he has remarkable range, and an incredibly quick release. what 'long, athletic guys' did you have in mind that will be able to both take away his shot (from 25+ feet out), AND prevent him from getting by them? who many of them exist in the league? 1/2-a-dozen? i agree that he'll have to make a considerable amount of adjustments in his (overall) game, but guys who can shoot...can shoot, and guys who can mix ridiculous range with ridiculous accuracy will always be able to find a home in the NBA.

                    that being said, i'm not advocating him for the raps, or for any team picking in the lottery for that matter, since those teams are likely so fundamentally flawed (otherwise they wouldn't be picking in the lottery, outside of teams that are decent & have picks they acquired) that a player like fredette would likely only hinder them...and playing for them would likely hinder his progress as well. i don't really see him as a starter, necessarily, though it depends on where he winds up. but would anyone be surprised if he didn't have a lengthy career? didn't quite a few people have similar misgivings about steph curry coming out? what's the difference between the two, exactly? curry's a better athlete & has become a more adept distributor, but i don't think anyone's going to be mistaking him for nash (in terms of passing ability) anytime soon. i fail to see why fredette couldn't have a similar impact...likely not on the same level, but still.
                    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                    • #11
                      go for kemba.

                      team kemba.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Multipaul wrote: View Post
                        go for kemba.

                        team kemba.
                        After watching him play, really hope the Raptors do NOT pick Kemba.
                        grindhouse wrote: View Post
                        Can't be any worst than the point guards we have now.
                        Not any better either.
                        yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                        at the end of the day, you may well be spot-on about his future in the NBA...but as a mid-1st rounder (or late lottery pick, at best), i'm not sure that - as a worst-case scenario - is actually all that bad. sometimes, we get caught up in what a player can't do, and forget to just focus on whether he can ball or not. dujuan blair: undersized, no ACLs, 'limited' offensively, 'risky' pick...but balls like a mo-fo. i'm not suggesting fredette can be in the pros what he is in college, but i do think that in the right system, he'll be an impact player.
                        Blair was a 2nd rounder though wasn't he?
                        As for Jimmer, he would be good off the bench for Boston, Chicago, or starting for GS.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maleko wrote: View Post
                          Blair was a 2nd rounder though wasn't he?
                          yup...but that's kind of the point. he could PLAY, but a lot of GMs/scouts looked past that & instead focused on what he couldn't do (or on what might happen injury-wise), and he fell. gotta remember, this is probably going to turn out to be an epically mediocre draft, so the valuation of players in this draft vs. previous (i.e. well-stocked) drafts isn't equitible. by that i mean a guy getting picked in the late teens/20's of this draft would likely be 'valued' as a 2nd-rounder in a loaded draft; guys who are considered lottery picks in this draft would be thought of as mid-to-late 1st-rounders. so a guy like fredette may go relatively high (mid-teens?), but his *real* value would be as a late-first/early second round pick.

                          Maleko wrote: View Post
                          As for Jimmer, he would be good off the bench for Boston, Chicago, or starting for GS.
                          i wonder...i think he'd need to be in a system that valued free-flowing offense, a fast pace, a coach who could live with the occasional 30-foot bomb 6 seconds into the shot clock, etc...and one that had enough defenders to put around him so he wouldn't be a liability on that end. it's definitely going to be tricky finding the right environment for him.
                          TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                          • #14
                            1. Kyrie Irving, Harrison Barnes, Brandon Knight, Josh Selby
                            2. Ben Hansbrough, Kemba Walker, Terrence Jones
                            3. Patric Young, Kawhi Leonard, Tyler Honeycutt, Kyle Singler

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