Everything Derozan

[special1]

Yeah just don't see the point in responding seriously to someone who's so absurdly biased that he feels the need to come to the rescue of dd for every negative comment associated with him, valid or not, and can't admit to a single fault in the guy. Like would we really get anywhere? There's no point.

Right.....lol


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[Abbas]

[Scraptor]

Didn't see this posted but this is a nice compilation of DD's footwork someone posted to reddit:

Pretty phenomenal that someone as raw as he was coming out of college could develop this much polish. A testament to hard work.

[DanH]

DeRozan's post game is very pretty and has been one of his more effective facets of his game the past few years before his huge improvement in pick and roll this year.

[Raptorsnz]

So someone posted this on the NBA reddit page regarding the best passers in the NBA

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...ting_20152016/

Admittedly I'm not smart enough to know what's going on with the formulas and what not, but it's interesting that DeRozan came up 2nd in SGs and 8th overall. Is there any validation to the stats here?

[Barolt]

So someone posted this on the NBA reddit page regarding the best passers in the NBA

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...ting_20152016/

Admittedly I'm not smart enough to know what's going on with the formulas and what not, but it's interesting that DeRozan came up 2nd in SGs and 8th overall. Is there any validation to the stats here?

My concern with the way it's calculated is that there's no accounting for minutes played or total possessions used. There's absolutely no pace accounting either. So high usage, high minutes players will always look better in that context.

[JWash]

My concern with the way it's calculated is that there's no accounting for minutes played or total possessions used. There's absolutely no pace accounting either. So high usage, high minutes players will always look better in that context.

He said this at the beginning of the post though

while assist numbers are heavily influenced by a player's role and level of ball dominance, Passer Rating is not. You can read more about it in last year's post, but here is a breakdown of how it is calculated.

And isn't he sort of accounting for different players' roles by incorporating Expected Value of a Possession?

[Barolt]

He said this at the beginning of the post though



And isn't he sort of accounting for different players' roles by incorporating Expected Value of a Possession?

Except historically, pace affects turnover rate. Higher pace = higher turnover rate. So achieving the same rate of turnovers at a higher pace is more impressive, while not accounting for that will artificially reward teams that play at a slower pace.

[DanH]

So someone posted this on the NBA reddit page regarding the best passers in the NBA

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...ting_20152016/

Admittedly I'm not smart enough to know what's going on with the formulas and what not, but it's interesting that DeRozan came up 2nd in SGs and 8th overall. Is there any validation to the stats here?

The stats are all quite straightforward.

DeRozan ranks well primarily with his very low turnover rate, which has always been a strength of his. His assists and FT assists are more pedestrian for a SG, but most of the players that rank better than him also have significant turnover rates. Pretty indicative of a scorer's mindset, and DD's propensity to throw up a bad shot rather than make a bad pass.

Valuable skill set complementing Lowry though - Lowry turns it over more than DD while generating similar points per pass (with of course his passes inflated with passes that are just initiating sets).

Lowry's rating appears to be about 9.4 if interested.

[JWash]

To me the lists seem to sign off pretty well with the eye test. Looking around the league I actually don't see any 2-guards that are more effective with their passing than DeRozan besides Harden.

[DanH]

Except historically, pace affects turnover rate. Higher pace = higher turnover rate. So achieving the same rate of turnovers at a higher pace is more impressive, while not accounting for that will artificially reward teams that play at a slower pace.

So does point scoring efficiency though. You'll turn it over more but generate more points per pass with more easy transition buckets.

It's all in terms of per-pass, which makes some sense. I think it probably doesn't account for system - a lot of passes are not ever intended to generate an assist, like the first couple passes in a three man weave for example. So there's some muddle there. And Lowry really suffers from it - he's made an astounding number of passes this year.

[Barolt]

To me the lists seem to sign off pretty well with the eye test. Looking around the league I actually don't see any 2-guards that are more effective with their passing than DeRozan besides Harden.

http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/true-usage/

Generally speaking, I much prefer nyloncalculus' playmaking stats. They adjust for pace, possession and even give shooting percentages off passes.

I'm not saying his list is terrible, or DeMar is bad, but I think you do need to somewhat account for things like usage, pace and minutes to get a fully accurate accounting.

[Barolt]

The stats are all quite straightforward.

DeRozan ranks well primarily with his very low turnover rate, which has always been a strength of his. His assists and FT assists are more pedestrian for a SG, but most of the players that rank better than him also have significant turnover rates. Pretty indicative of a scorer's mindset, and DD's propensity to throw up a bad shot rather than make a bad pass.

Valuable skill set complementing Lowry though - Lowry turns it over more than DD while generating similar points per pass (with of course his passes inflated with passes that are just initiating sets).

Lowry's rating appears to be about 9.4 if interested.

Using points created punishes guys who's teammates miss the shots though, and there's been a narrative around the Raptors that players receiving passes from DeMar miss the shots or his assists would be higher. Doesn't this indicate the opposite may be true?

[DanH]

Using points created punishes guys who's teammates miss the shots though, and there's been a narrative around the Raptors that players receiving passes from DeMar miss the shots or his assists would be higher. Doesn't this indicate the opposite may be true?

I think in big enough samples you are probably losing the noise of guys missing good shots or making bad ones.

That narrative was predominantly from early in the year when Ross and PP were indeed missing more shots than usual.

[Barolt]

I think in big enough samples you are probably losing the noise of guys missing good shots or making bad ones.

That narrative was predominantly from early in the year when Ross and PP were indeed missing more shots than usual.

Thinking about the pace discussion, as pace increases turnovers increase for both good and bad teams, but from the data I've seen scoring efficiency only increases for good teams as pace increases.