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  • I actually like the way Casey has developed Ross and JV. All rookies come into the league with bad habits, and giving them minutes for the sake of giving them minutes would have cultivated those bad habits (ie. Triano's handling of Bargnani). Getting benched for making the same mistakes is sometimes a great tool for a teacher.

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    • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      I actually like the way Casey has developed Ross and JV. All rookies come into the league with bad habits, and giving them minutes for the sake of giving them minutes would have cultivated those bad habits (ie. Triano's handling of Bargnani). Getting benched for making the same mistakes is sometimes a great tool for a teacher.
      But Casey burying JV on the bench for the entire second half is extreme. You have to give a player opportunities to play to show that they have learned from their mistake. Straight sitting should be for disciplinary purposes or if a guy straight up ignores the coaching staff (ie - Nick Young, JaVale McGee, Andray Blatche type decisions).

      Casey then put JV in an impossible situation in OT; which was a disservice for JV's confidence and for the team trying to win an important game. Having JV completely "out of the game" then throwing him in for the second OT is not putting your team in a good situation either. You need to balance between the hot hand and keeping the bench engaged.

      As a coach, I know this is one of the things I have always found the hardest, but that's why you have assistants to keep track of the bench. "Hey coach, JV's been out a long time. We should get him in there for a bit". Boom, sub in JV and let PP and Amir rest for 2 mins each (resulting in a nice 4 min stretch for JV to stay engaged).

      Let JV know, he's got 4 mins, so leave it all on the floor. He'll bust his butt for 4 mins knowing it's his only chance to leave an impression in the game. That should provide a nice boost (stagger it over the 3rd/4th quarter breaks to maximize the rest for Amir/PP) and could make the difference in the game. It helps with JV's confidence, keeps more players engaged in the game, and could ultimately help you win the game (either with the boost of his 4 mins or the added freshness of your hot hands).
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • Axel wrote: View Post
        JV was put into an impossible situation when he finally got in. He had sat for far too long to be able to step in and play at a high level. That's on Casey. He has to manage his rotations to get the young man in. Amir and PP both had foul trouble, so why not give JV a minute or two of burn and let one of those guys rest in the 4th? Then going small ball with Salmons over JV, that's got to be a kick in the confidence if I've ever seen one.
        Putting him in for a minute or two in the fourth would have been great. Then we could have complained that "Casey puts him in for a minute or two and then yanks him? No wonder JV's confidence is shot!" No matter what Casey does with respect to JV it's going to be derided by some. JV is not progressing because of Casey. TR is progressing despite Casey. Got it.
        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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        • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
          Putting him in for a minute or two in the fourth would have been great. Then we could have complained that "Casey puts him in for a minute or two and then yanks him? No wonder JV's confidence is shot!" No matter what Casey does with respect to JV it's going to be derided by some. JV is not progressing because of Casey. TR is progressing despite Casey. Got it.
          I'm confused by your post, are you agreeing or disagreeing? Or both?
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

          Comment


          • JV is smart enough to know when the other bigs on the team are out-playing him and when he is making mistakes. Point is, communicate with him, but give him the opportunity and keep him a part of the game. Otherwise, when you do have to turn to him (as what happened vs Washington when players fouled out), you've hurt both the team's chances of success and JV's confidence. A double whammy that can easily be avoided. If JV goes in and plays well, then you can extend the minutes beyond 4. If he is continuing to struggle, then you allow rest for the others.

            It's also important to note that JV isn't the center of our offence, so if he is struggling, it's not a death blow like it would be if Lowry/DD or even GV was playing poorly.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • Axel wrote: View Post
              I'm confused by your post, are you agreeing or disagreeing? Or both?
              I find analyzing the coach's handling of the players very difficult to judge. We all know that different players respond differently to each strategy.

              I think JV's slumping right now, which is understandable. Casey was talking about protecting JV's confidence, etc.

              I honestly think that if there were major issues in how things were being dealt with, that JV or his agent would talk to MU or DC. Masai and Casey made it clear that they were going to develop young talent this year, I'm sure they'd listen to any thoughts on the matter.
              "Bruno?
              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
              He's terrible."

              -Superjudge, 7/23

              Hope you're wrong.

              Comment


              • Axel wrote: View Post
                I'm confused by your post, are you agreeing or disagreeing? Or both?
                I'm just pointing out that no matter what Casey does with JV, there will be someone here criticizing it.
                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                Comment


                • stooley wrote: View Post
                  I find analyzing the coach's handling of the players very difficult to judge. We all know that different players respond differently to each strategy.

                  I think JV's slumping right now, which is understandable. Casey was talking about protecting JV's confidence, etc.

                  I honestly think that if there were major issues in how things were being dealt with, that JV or his agent would talk to MU or DC. Masai and Casey made it clear that they were going to develop young talent this year, I'm sure they'd listen to any thoughts on the matter.
                  True, all players are motivated differently, but I think all players need to see the floor if you are going to expect them to be able to produce later in the game. It's very hard to go from sitting on the bench for an hour (real time) and then jump in for OT. That's on Casey regardless of JV's motivation style.

                  It's not like this is Landry Fields or Dwight Buycks, JV is clearly a guy we need on a game by game basis to produce in a role (the role will fluctuate based on performance, match-ups, teammates, etc). As a coach, you know where your meal ticket sits, and if you can't work them into the game at all, then you are setting them up for failure when you need to call on him. As evidenced by the game.

                  Casey basically admitted that it was on him in his comments in Matt's article: "It really wasn't fair to Jonas," Casey said in hindsight, following his team's marathon 134-129 loss to Washington. "It wasn't his fault."
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                  Comment


                  • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                    I'm just pointing out that no matter what Casey does with JV, there will be someone here criticizing it.
                    Very true, but the question is, does Casey have defend-able justification for his actions? Were his actions in the best interest of the team to win that game? Were his actions in the best interest of his young player? I'd say no to all 3; which is a problem.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • Axel wrote: View Post
                      But Casey burying JV on the bench for the entire second half is extreme. You have to give a player opportunities to play to show that they have learned from their mistake. Straight sitting should be for disciplinary purposes or if a guy straight up ignores the coaching staff (ie - Nick Young, JaVale McGee, Andray Blatche type decisions).

                      Casey then put JV in an impossible situation in OT; which was a disservice for JV's confidence and for the team trying to win an important game. Having JV completely "out of the game" then throwing him in for the second OT is not putting your team in a good situation either. You need to balance between the hot hand and keeping the bench engaged.

                      As a coach, I know this is one of the things I have always found the hardest, but that's why you have assistants to keep track of the bench. "Hey coach, JV's been out a long time. We should get him in there for a bit". Boom, sub in JV and let PP and Amir rest for 2 mins each (resulting in a nice 4 min stretch for JV to stay engaged).

                      Let JV know, he's got 4 mins, so leave it all on the floor. He'll bust his butt for 4 mins knowing it's his only chance to leave an impression in the game. That should provide a nice boost (stagger it over the 3rd/4th quarter breaks to maximize the rest for Amir/PP) and could make the difference in the game. It helps with JV's confidence, keeps more players engaged in the game, and could ultimately help you win the game (either with the boost of his 4 mins or the added freshness of your hot hands).
                      You could be right with the details of yesterdays game or a few where maybe he was thrown into a late game situation when he was cold. To tell you the truth, I wasn't able to watch yesterdays game, so I didn't have an opportunity to see what JV was doing out there. For all I know, JV getting thrown into the game was because Casey was trying to get his veteran big some rest so the vet could close the game out, thus JV was being used in a situation where Casey had no choice.

                      My point is in reference to the braoder subject of how Ross and JV are being developed. Are the mistakes JV is making thse same ones over and over and Casey benches him to try and break those habits? This isn't the first coach though that has benched JV for large portions of the game, as it's well chronicled that he received the same treatment from the team Lithuania coach. Is it something JV is doing that is getting him this treatment?

                      Comment


                      • Axel wrote: View Post
                        True, all players are motivated differently, but I think all players need to see the floor if you are going to expect them to be able to produce later in the game. It's very hard to go from sitting on the bench for an hour (real time) and then jump in for OT. That's on Casey regardless of JV's motivation style.

                        It's not like this is Landry Fields or Dwight Buycks, JV is clearly a guy we need on a game by game basis to produce in a role (the role will fluctuate based on performance, match-ups, teammates, etc). As a coach, you know where your meal ticket sits, and if you can't work them into the game at all, then you are setting them up for failure when you need to call on him. As evidenced by the game.

                        Casey basically admitted that it was on him in his comments in Matt's article: "It really wasn't fair to Jonas," Casey said in hindsight, following his team's marathon 134-129 loss to Washington. "It wasn't his fault."
                        Right that's fair.

                        On the other hand, JV was getting shown up by Gortat that game. I think Casey was hoping he wouldn't have to resort to the very end of the bench in a marathon game.

                        I see the mistake there, but I'm not sure we can extrapolate from that to his overall treatment of the player.

                        JV is still averaging ~28 minutes, so he's getting his play time. He also often looks tired, so I'm not sure more time would necessarily help him.
                        "Bruno?
                        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                        He's terrible."

                        -Superjudge, 7/23

                        Hope you're wrong.

                        Comment


                        • stooley wrote: View Post

                          JV is still averaging ~28 minutes, so he's getting his play time. He also often looks tired, so I'm not sure more time would necessarily help him.
                          24 mins avg. over the last month.

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                          • rocwell wrote: View Post
                            24 mins avg. over the last month.
                            Over the last month, but he's also played terribly. Hard to say what caused what.

                            I'd argue that playing poorly has led to a deserved cut in minutes.

                            But I can't back that up at all. And that's the problem with analyzing this, every single phenomenon CAN be explained as a positive or negative.
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

                            Comment


                            • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                              You could be right with the details of yesterdays game or a few where maybe he was thrown into a late game situation when he was cold. To tell you the truth, I wasn't able to watch yesterdays game, so I didn't have an opportunity to see what JV was doing out there. For all I know, JV getting thrown into the game was because Casey was trying to get his veteran big some rest so the vet could close the game out, thus JV was being used in a situation where Casey had no choice.

                              My point is in reference to the braoder subject of how Ross and JV are being developed. Are the mistakes JV is making thse same ones over and over and Casey benches him to try and break those habits? This isn't the first coach though that has benched JV for large portions of the game, as it's well chronicled that he received the same treatment from the team Lithuania coach. Is it something JV is doing that is getting him this treatment?
                              I was using the Washington game as an example. I missed yesterday's too. Where Jonas played 29 minutes (out of 63 mins) but came out in the 3rd quarter, and didn't get back in until the last minute of the 2nd OT.

                              I agree with the premise of sitting a guy for mistakes, it's absolutely the right thing to do, but that Wiz game was an extreme. Can't sit him that long. Also worth noting, that he led the team in rebounds with 10 and we were getting killed on the boards all game long. Perhaps sitting your best rebounder isn't the best choice.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • stooley wrote: View Post
                                Over the last month, but he's also played terribly. Hard to say what caused what.

                                I'd argue that playing poorly has led to a deserved cut in minutes.

                                But I can't back that up at all. And that's the problem with analyzing this, every single phenomenon CAN be explained as a positive or negative.
                                Have I said that jv played well?
                                Last edited by rocwell; Mon Mar 3, 2014, 10:35 AM.

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