Everything Valanciunas

[wallz]

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Jonas plays 27 mins a night, starting every game. He does get benched for long stretches but there's only so much a coach can do to develop players AND win games. I feel DC has done his part in doing both, it's up to JV to get better

[Puffer]

Jonas plays 27 mins a night, starting every game. He does get benched for long stretches but there's only so much a coach can do to develop players AND win games. I feel DC has done his part in doing both, it's up to JV to get better

I guess the question is, would JV play better with some kind of logical structure to his playing time, as mentioned by (I believe) OldSchoolKool. Sure pull him when he makes a mistake, but put him back in. Let him know he will start the first, go back in the second at a particular time, etc. I understand matchup issues, but sitting him for 20 minutes or more, then throwing him back out there and expecting high level performance while he is looking over his shoulder is not going to work.

Maybe a little more structure improves his play and then Casey accomplishes both objectives, development and winning. We know he can play better than what we've seen lately.

[Mediumcore]

you gotta understand not every player is the same

I guarantee you that Pop gives all the players under him the same treatment. Parker, was just an example. Duncan got it/gets it too.

[Mediumcore]

Size has no correlation to confidence or emotional stability as the bold implies.

I played 5 years of CIS ball and turned down the possibility to play in Europe. I'm not sure a lot of people who are talking here realize how important confidence is in playing your best. I also don't think they've ever been in high pressure situations to fully grasp how important the mental part of the game is. Just my observations from my own playing experiences tied in to 20+ years of following the NBA.

True about the bold, but I thought it was a funny comparison of how fragile most here think JV is in comparison to what you would think of a person of his physical size.

You get forged in the fire, not when getting the Bargnani treatment. As my example of Pop reflects, those he coached benefitted from some tough love and if anything their confidence is at an all time high...bench players like Mills, Green and the like play like they think they are all stars.

[mcHAPPY]

Jonas plays 27 mins a night, starting every game. He does get benched for long stretches but there's only so much a coach can do to develop players AND win games. I feel DC has done his part in doing both, it's up to JV to get better

Averages don't tell the story.

Look at his game log.

His minutes are a yo-yo.

That type of inconsistency is what leads to the issues many 'whiners' (lol) are discussing.

The reality is JV is a big part of this team's success now and moving forward. When he plays 30 minutes or more the Raptors are 15-8.

I know these stats don't exist in a vacuum and all sorts of other factors play in to a win and a loss.

[mcHAPPY]

True about the bold, but I thought it was a funny comparison of how fragile most here think JV is in comparison to what you would think of a person of his physical size.

You get forged in the fire, not when getting the Bargnani treatment. As my example of Pop reflects, those he coached benefitted from some tough love and if anything their confidence is at an all time high...bench players like Mills, Green and the like play like they think they are all stars.

DeRozan appears to have thrived in the Bargnani treatment. He was treated the exact same: guaranteed starter, unlimited minutes, mistakes don't matter.

[Axel]

Averages don't tell the story.

Look at his game log.

His minutes are a yo-yo.

That type of inconsistency is what leads to the issues many 'whiners' (lol) are discussing.

The reality is JV is a big part of this team's success now and moving forward. When he plays 30 minutes or more the Raptors are 15-8.

I know these stats don't exist in a vacuum and all sorts of other factors play in to a win and a loss.

Bingo. The issues aren't with the quantity of minutes as much as it is the quality and consistency. Scrub mop-up minutes don't hold the same value as crunch time minutes.

[wallz]

DeRozan appears to have thrived in the Bargnani treatment. He was treated the exact same: guaranteed starter, unlimited minutes, mistakes don't matter.

We all know that doesn't work for everyone. Maybe Jonas needs to be punished to learn from his mistakes. Maybe DC is all about behaviourism!

But in all seriousness, I get what you're saying. I just don't think it will hinder his development to the extent some ppl think.


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[OldSkoolCool]

Getting really tired of all this JV is being mishandled by Casey talk. The guy is a 7 foot giant but everyone is so concerned about how fragile his confidence is. If it's that fragile he shouldn't be in the league.

Take a look at some videos on Youtube of Popovich and Tony Parker when Parker was entering the league....heck how Pop coaches Parker now even.

This is a really good point, BUT, it is still different than how Casey handles JV. If JV made a mistake and Casey pulled him and talked/yelled/screamed/discussed what JV did wrong, then I would be happier. However as it stands, Casey pulls JV...then....nothing, no discussion, no explanation. Pop also didn't let Parker rot on the bench for a long time and made sure to get him back in the game to correct his mistake and learn how to play that way.

I guess the question is, would JV play better with some kind of logical structure to his playing time, as mentioned by (I believe) OldSchoolKool. Sure pull him when he makes a mistake, but put him back in. Let him know he will start the first, go back in the second at a particular time, etc. I understand matchup issues, but sitting him for 20 minutes or more, then throwing him back out there and expecting high level performance while he is looking over his shoulder is not going to work.

Maybe a little more structure improves his play and then Casey accomplishes both objectives, development and winning. We know he can play better than what we've seen lately.

I think that the development of Jonas is a great way to help our playoff odds based solely on the fact that he is our best rebounder, so I don't see how "development" and "winning" have to be separate.

[mcHAPPY]

We all know that doesn't work for everyone. Maybe Jonas needs to be punished to learn from his mistakes. Maybe DC is all about behaviourism!

But in all seriousness, I get what you're saying. I just don't think it will hinder his development to the extent some ppl think.


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There is another factor which has not been brought up.

Utah is experiencing it this year to some extent with Derrick Favors.

IF you don't give players while on their rookie contract every opportunity to develop (i.e. force feed minutes) - especially higher draft picks - then when it comes time for extensions and/or restricted free agency you don't know what you have.

I think Favors is a good player but is he worth $12.5M? Up until that extension was signed he had only averaged 20/21/23 minutes per game in his first 3 seasons. THat is a big gamble that the potential pays off.


On the bold, you're probably right. But the kid has talent and is effective. He is never going to be a superstar but he could make an allstar game one day if he is playing for a winning team. The lost swagger really has me bummed because there is no doubt his game rises to another level with it and that can help the Raptors not only moving forward but right now too.

[wallz]

On the bold, you're probably right. But the kid has talent and is effective. He is never going to be a superstar but he could make an allstar game one day if he is playing for a winning team. The lost swagger really has me bummed because there is no doubt his game rises to another level with it and that can help the Raptors not only moving forward but right now too.

Agreed. I just don't like all of the blame being put on Casey, because he's doing a heck of a job with this team. I still see a young Joakim in jv, and he'll show his true colours in time


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[Axel]

Jonas's 4th quarter minutes over the last 10 games:

Vs Nets - sat entire 4th quarter - team lost by 4
Vs Wolves - played most of 4th - team won by 7
Vs Kings - played final 6 mins with Raps up 19 points - team won by 12
Vs GSW - left with 3 mins to play in 3rd - team won by 6
Vs Was (3OT) - left with 3 mins left in 3rd, sat entire 4th, 1OT and 3OT - team lost by 5
Vs Cle - left with 5 mins to play in 3rd - team won by 6
Vs Orl - enters 4th with 6 mins left with Raps up 14 points - team won by 15
Vs Cle - played 6 mins in 4th - Raps up 13 - team won by 7
Vs Bulls - left with 5 mins to play in 3rd - team lost by 2
Vs Was - play 1 mins, 14 seconds in 4th while Raps up 12 - team won by 10

Casey only puts him in if the team is up by double digits, and even then he seems to have a short leash.

Very similar to the start of the season, where over the first 11 games, Valanciunas played 42 of a possible 132 fourth quarter minutes, including four games in which he sat out for the entire period.

Corner piece to the franchise?

[wallz]

Jonas's 4th quarter minutes over the last 10 games:

Vs Nets - sat entire 4th quarter - team lost by 4
Vs Wolves - played most of 4th - team won by 7
Vs Kings - played final 6 mins with Raps up 19 points - team won by 12
Vs GSW - left with 3 mins to play in 3rd - team won by 6
Vs Was (3OT) - left with 3 mins left in 3rd, sat entire 4th, 1OT and 3OT - team lost by 5
Vs Cle - left with 5 mins to play in 3rd - team won by 6
Vs Orl - enters 4th with 6 mins left with Raps ... - ?

He'll get those minutes as he gets better. But for now it's hard to say Casey has been making the wrong call since they are the best 4th quarter team in the league


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[BobLoblaw]

The cornerstone needs to work on his passing ability and defense.

[imanshumpert]

Not every player develops the same way, nor do they react to the same kind of treatment.

One player may become a star from being force-fed minutes regardless of mistakes, another might just develop a series of unbreakable bad habits that lead to them becoming a bust. That same bust may have become a star had they had a shorter leash.

This may even be true if the two players are on the same team. Tony Parker for example was force-fed minutes pretty much right away, while Manu Ginobili has always had a somewhat inconsistent minute distribution. I think both of them turned out alright, no?