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  • chico wrote: View Post
    It's all Masai's fault for hiring this fool of a coach, the day after last season ended, who doesn't know anything about developing this young big man. March on Masai's office and help him see the light!!
    Excellent thanks for the great Idea
    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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    • planetmars wrote: View Post
      I think you got it wrong.. I don't want JV traded.. but if the coaching staff has no faith in the guy.. and if Masai completely believes in the coaching staff.. then shouldn't it make sense to move him while his stock is high?

      As for patience.. sure but what exactly did he do so wrong? Is he really that bad defensively that we'd rather have Patterson, Hansborough or Hayes out there? JV is our only good rebounder.. and possession is really important in the 4th quarter.
      I was addressing the seemingly cavalier sentiment to trade our 22 yr old centre barely into his 3rd season because the coach has yet to/wont play him meaningful minutes in the 4th qtr. Isnt that the nub of the post?

      Obviously Casey and staff feel that at this point of his development JV is not upto playing at crunch time. My own thoughts are that JV is very hard on himself and if he were to make a mistake/s this would cost the team the game....that would then leach into the rest of his game/psyche. The truth is we dont really know but I prefer to think that overall Casey has the best interests of both JV the person & asset as well as the team and the W-L record. And the W-L record is wonderful so far. If my theory has legs then I can see where over the course of the season JV would have built much confidence in his game (first 3 qtrs/practice) that Casey would then start loosening the reins.

      You also mention that other GMs would consider JV a top 10 centre... why then would you consider trading him...who would we possibly get back to take his place now and in the future at the position which arguably alongwith PG are the pivotal/anchor positions of any good-great team. And essentially for what reason? That he may not be developing/ed quick enough at a couple of positional aspects? You must know how difficult acquiring someone good at that position is...and JV is on a rookie deal and has so much more to improve.

      Not to worry. JV is being developed...Casey's and MU's program for his development just doesn't match Lowe's and others. However you must agree that the team's execs who probably know more about JV than JV are the best judges of this process, no? As I wrote previously, if MU ever felt that Casey was jeopardizing the growth of a very important asset, he should fire him.

      Comment


      • Bendit wrote: View Post
        Obviously Casey and staff feel that at this point of his development JV is not upto playing at crunch time. My own thoughts are that JV is very hard on himself and if he were to make a mistake/s this would cost the team the game....that would then leach into the rest of his game/psyche. The truth is we dont really know but I prefer to think that overall Casey has the best interests of both JV the person & asset as well as the team and the W-L record. And the W-L record is wonderful so far. If my theory has legs then I can see where over the course of the season JV would have built much confidence in his game (first 3 qtrs/practice) that Casey would then start loosening the reins.

        This is a good theory. We're all Raptors fans and we all obviously want to give Casey the benefit of the doubt. I root for him as much as I've rooted for other players that they would eventually figure things out and be awesome night in and night out.

        However, this pattern goes beyond JV. Ed Davis played fewer minutes in his third year than he did in his second, because Casey started leaning on Alan Anderson (especially in the fourth quarter) instead. Of the 45 games he played for us that year, Ed did not play in the fourth at all for 12 games.

        Last year, of his 81 games, Val didn't play in 18 fourth quarters. This year, he has not played in 6 of 13 possible fourth quarters (he left one game at the half and missed another with injury), and is currently on pace to play about 60% fewer fourth quarter minutes than he did last year, when he played 45% fewer fourth quarter minutes than DeMar, and 26% fewer than his sophomore peer Andre Drummond.

        You could say, maybe it's because of blowouts... but the leaders of the team are frequently left in with 20 point leads... a 40+ point lead against Milwaukee. Or maybe it's because we need to balance minutes because we're so deep... but then why are DeMar and Kyle playing 35/34 minutes, and do we really need to keep getting minutes for Chuck and Psycho?

        What happens if we face Chicago in the playoffs? We can't keep trotting out our power forward/small ball lineups against Gasol/Noah/Gibson/Mirotic. We're going to need Val to learn to deal with tough situations. Mirotic, an NBA rookie, playing for one of the league's toughest coaches, has already played double the 4th quarter minutes that Val has this year, as has Doug McDermott, Chicago's other rookie. Kyle Anderson, a rookie nicknamed Slow-Mo, has played more fourth quarter minutes under Gregg Popovich. Nik Stauskas and Kostas Papanikolau, both rookies who are struggling, both playing for winning teams, have also played more than double the 4th quarter minutes that Val has.

        In terms of sophomores on good teams, there are several more names you could add to the list, like Otto Porter and Alex Len. And of 313 players with three or more years experience (NBA.com groups them all together), Val places 258th, behind the likes of Charlie Villanueva, Jeff Ayres, and Joel Freeland.

        I know we haven't been winning like this in a long time. But I'd rather we win 50 games and get some serious development done than win 57 or 58 at the expense of the playoffs and beyond.
        Last edited by Scraptor; Fri Nov 28th, 2014, 05:07 AM.

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        • Scraptor wrote: View Post
          This is a good theory. We're all Raptors fans and we all obviously want to give Casey the benefit of the doubt. I root for him as much as I've rooted for other players that they would eventually figure things out and be awesome night in and night out.

          However, this pattern goes beyond JV. Ed Davis played fewer minutes in his third year than he did in his second, because Casey started leaning on Alan Anderson (especially in the fourth quarter) instead. Of the 45 games he played for us that year, Ed did not play in the fourth at all for 12 games.

          Last year, of his 81 games, Val didn't play in 18 fourth quarters. This year, he has not played in 6 of 13 possible fourth quarters (he left one game at the half and missed another with injury), and is currently on pace to play about 60% fewer fourth quarter minutes than he did last year, when he played 45% fewer fourth quarter minutes than DeMar, and 26% fewer than his sophomore peer Andre Drummond.

          You could say, maybe it's because of blowouts... but the leaders of the team are frequently left in with 20 point leads... a 40+ point lead against Milwaukee. Or maybe it's because we need to balance minutes because we're so deep... but then why are DeMar and Kyle playing 35/34 minutes, and do we really need to keep getting minutes for Chuck and Psycho?

          What happens if we face Chicago in the playoffs? We can't keep trotting out our power forward/small ball lineups against Gasol/Noah/Gibson/Mirotic. We're going to need Val to learn to deal with tough situations. Mirotic, an NBA rookie, playing for one of the league's toughest coaches, has already played double the 4th quarter minutes that Val has this year, as has Doug McDermott, Chicago's other rookie. Kyle Anderson, a rookie nicknamed Slow-Mo, has played more fourth quarter minutes under Gregg Popovich. Nik Stauskas and Kostas Papanikolau, both rookies who are struggling, both playing for winning teams, have also played more than double the 4th quarter minutes that Val has.

          In terms of sophomores on good teams, there are several more names you could add to the list, like Otto Porter and Alex Len. And of 313 players with three or more years experience (NBA.com groups them all together), Val places 258th, behind the likes of Charlie Villanueva, Jeff Ayres, and Joel Freeland.

          I know we haven't been winning like this in a long time. But I'd rather we win 50 games and get some serious development done than win 57 or 58 at the expense of the playoffs and beyond.
          The bold are all ridiculous in my opinion.

          Granted I'm not an NBA head coach or even a lowly assistant for that matter so what do I really know.

          If I was JV pulling a Greg Monroe would not be outside my thoughts at this moment.

          Your last sentence is spot on. However I'm not convinced JV causes any more losses in the 4th Q than any other player could or would through making a mistake. This rhetoric that he is making mistakes has no substance other than preconceived notions and biased anecdotal evidence. It is quite evident that JV is significantly improved on both sides of the ball this year.

          The guy is DOWN nearly 4 minutes per game while his per36 are up across the board (including blocks and rebounds), his shooting percentages are all up, he has the best net of ORtg/DRtg of all the starters, and the lowest DRtg.

          Comment


          • I would love to see JV log some more fourth quarter/crunch time minutes and quote-unquote learn on the job during some of the more pressure filled situations that a game can offer. I think there's real merit in the line of thinking that JV is going to be an integral piece of the team going forward (not only this season, but for hopefully the next decade or so as well), so the faster he can get up to speed in all facets and situations of the game, the better off the Raptors will be.

            Having said that, there are a couple of narratives surrounding the issue right now that I think are way off base:

            The first one would be that the Raptors can "afford" to punt some games now in order to get JV his crunch time reps, all because we have our 13 wins already banked. I love Zach Lowe. He's the best NBA writer doing it right now. But that's a ridiculous statement. The team is still less than a full calendar year removed from being one of the worst in the league. We're 15 games into the season! They have achieved absolutely nothing but a hot start, now is not the time to take on the mentality that they've arrived or whatever, and they can afford to start sacrificing wins for the sake of one individual player's development. It goes directly against the mentality that has led this team to a great deal of their success, in my opinion.

            And before everyone jumps on me that it's possible that the team could match or even surpass their current 4th quarter performances with JV on the floor, I agree. It's certainly possible, although it's hard to imagine the team playing much better down the stretch than what we've seen to start the season. I think it's important to keep in mind that it's an 82 game marathon, one that will have lots of ebbs and flows, certain guys getting hot and cold, different lineups excelling and struggling respectively, and that JV will get plenty of opportunity over the course of the season as long as he continues to play well. He's had a nice stretch of games after what I thought was a slow start, and I'm confident we will see more and more of the guy at the end of games as we move along.

            Casey's not a complete idiot. Guilty of leaning on the guys that he trusts a little too much at times? Absolutely. But he's not out to get JV or is in danger of blowing the guy's entire career. He's just doing it in a way that some may not agree with on here.

            Which sort of brings me to my second point of contention with this whole conversation. Sometimes I think we get carried away with painting JV as this poor, young, confused European kid who is constantly being yanked from the game for no reason, forced to watch the rest of the team celebrate with his head in his hands, with no clue on what he did wrong or what he can do to fix it. I bet he gets more one-on-one tutelage from Casey and the rest of the coaching staff than any other player on the roster. His teammates love him, and vice versa. He's playing better. He's playing hard. We really have no idea what happens with JV outside of his substitution patterns so let's not get too wrapped up in reading his facial expressions or trying to pry into the psyche of him and Casey. Calls for him to pull a Greg Monroe and get the hell out of dodge as soon as he can are preemptive, to say the least.

            Sorry for the long post. Once again, I want to re-iterate that JV is my favourite Raptor and I want and expect him to be do great things in Toronto. There's just a few things that jumped out at me from reading this conversation that didn't add up from a rational point of view. I don't know if it's a good or bad sign that we're 13-2 and we can always find something to feverishly argue about with one another, maybe it's just part of being a Raptors fan and the RR family.
            Last edited by Fully; Fri Nov 28th, 2014, 11:17 AM.

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            • MACK11 wrote: View Post
              That's why some of us feel there's a clear bias on this team. I'm not gonna name the player but you know who I'm talking about. It's quite comical when some people say Jonas is benched because he doesn't defend in the 4th but there a guy who plays ever 4th who's horrific at defending.
              There's a difference between being unskilled at defense, and just not doing as the coach instructs. I'm not saying that is the case here. But DeMar has awareness problems, which is a talent issue, and benching someone for lack of defensive talent when they're still the best option just seems cruel.

              That said, I don't think Casey is benching Val for mistakes now. I think Casey is benching him because of matchups.
              That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

              Comment


              • Fully wrote: View Post
                I would love to see JV log some more fourth quarter/crunch time minutes and quote-unquote learn on the job during some of the more pressure filled situations that a game can offer. I think there's real merit in the line of thinking that JV is going to be an integral piece of the team going forward (not only this season, but for hopefully the next decade or so as well), so the faster he can get up to speed in all facets and situations that the game can offer, the better off the Raptors will be.

                Having said that, there are a couple of narratives surrounding the issue right now that I think are way off base:

                The first one would be that the Raptors can "afford" to punt some games now in order to get JV his crunch time reps, all because we have our 13 wins already banked. I love Zach Lowe. He's the best NBA writer doing it right now. But that's a ridiculous statement. The team is still less than a full calendar year removed from being one of the worst in the league. We're 15 games into the season! They have achieved absolutely nothing but a hot start, now is not the time to take on the mentality that they've arrived or whatever, and they can afford to start sacrificing wins for the sake of one individual player's development. It goes directly against the mentality that has led this team to a great deal of their success, in my opinion.

                And before everyone jumps on me that it's possible that the team could match or even surpass their current 4th quarter performances with JV on the floor, I agree. It's certainly possible, although it's hard to imagine the team playing much better down the stretch than what we've seen to start the season. I think it's important to keep in mind that it's an 82 game marathon, one that will have lots of ebbs and flows, certain guys getting hot and cold, different lineups excelling and struggling respectively, and that JV will get plenty of opportunity over the course of the season as long as he continues to play well. He's had a nice stretch of games after what I thought was a slow start, and I'm confident we will see more and more of the guy at the end of games as we move along.

                Casey's not a complete idiot. Guilty of leaning on the guys that he trusts a little too much at times? Absolutely. But he's not out to get JV or is in danger of blowing the guy's entire career. He's just doing it in a way that some may not agree with on here.

                Which sort of brings me to my second point of contention with this whole conversation. Sometimes I think we get carried away with painting JV as this poor, young, confused European kid who is constantly being yanked from the game for no reason, forced to watch the rest of the team celebrate with his head in his hands, with no clue on what he did wrong or what he can do to fix it. I bet he gets more one-on-one tutelage from Casey and the rest of the coaching staff than any other player on the roster. His teammates love him, and vice versa. He's playing better. He's playing hard. We really have no idea what happens with JV outside of his substitution patterns so let's not get too wrapped up in reading his facial expressions or trying to pry into the psyche of him and Casey. Calls for him to pull a Greg Monroe and get the hell out of dodge as soon as he can are preemptive, to say the least.

                Sorry for the long post. Once again, I want to re-iterate that JV is my favourite Raptor and I want and expect him to be do great things in Toronto. There's just a few things that jumped out at me from reading this conversation that didn't add up from a rational point of view. I don't know if it's a good or bad sign that we're 13-2 and we can always find something to feverishly argue about with one another, maybe it's just part of being a Raptors fan and the RR family.
                I think there is a philosophical difference of opinion on the bold.

                Speaking for myself, I'm all about showing the guy the pine for messing up. Pull him out. Explain the problem. Explain the correction. Let him focus, get a drink, catch his breath, watch what is going on in the game from the sidelines. But what is missing is the opportunity to get back out there in a reasonable time frame to have a go at it again. Getting pulled early in the 3rd Q and then sitting for the rest of the game is not a good teaching practice, in my opinion.

                This isn't about playing JV every crunch minute possible. There are nights where his play, demeanour, and/or aggressiveness are going to dictates he sits. It is about getting him some opportunity and experience - his play has earned that right and the only reason he doesn't is a lack of faith/trust/confidence from the coach, in my opinion. Right now he is literally getting close to zero crunch time minutes and that isn't right, in my opinion.

                Comment


                • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                  I think there is a philosophical difference of opinion on the bold.

                  Speaking for myself, I'm all about showing the guy the pine for messing up. Pull him out. Explain the problem. Explain the correction. Let him focus, get a drink, catch his breath, watch what is going on in the game from the sidelines. But what is missing is the opportunity to get back out there in a reasonable time frame to have a go at it again. Getting pulled early in the 3rd Q and then sitting for the rest of the game is not a good teaching practice, in my opinion.

                  This isn't about playing JV every crunch minute possible. There are nights where his play, demeanour, and/or aggressiveness are going to dictates he sits. It is about getting him some opportunity and experience - his play has earned that right and the only reason he doesn't is a lack of faith/trust/confidence from the coach, in my opinion. Right now he is literally getting close to zero crunch time minutes and that isn't right, in my opinion.
                  I get what you're saying and we're on the same page for a lot of it.

                  I made the point earlier that I don't think JV deserves a chunk of fourth Q minutes every game simply for being JV, but I do get the frustration over him not even getting the opportunity to show what he can do most nights. How do you change the perception of being a crunch time liability without actually getting any crunch time minutes, right?

                  I just think there's a little more to it than stubborn old Casey refusing to give the young fella any love.

                  Some nights he's the victim of circumstance. He gets a sub, whether it's his scheduled blow or he's being removed from the game based on performance, and that new lineup takes off for the Raptors, causing Casey to roll with that group for longer than he originally planned. Is that the most optimal long term strategy for JV's development? Nope. One of Casey's possible short falls? Yup. But it's completely understandable.

                  Sometimes the Raptors opponent goes small in JV's absence, or because they're trying to come back and need a faster, 3-point centric unit on the floor, and it's difficult to find a substitution that makes sense without putting Valanciunas on the wrong end of a mismatch.

                  Then there's the handful of nights where he's not playing well at all and doesn't get a look, or the handful of nights where he's able to get in for some crunch time love and either blows his shot and gets pulled again or plays well and stays in.

                  Take all those scenarios into account and you've probably got the 15 games this season covered. Which is also important to remember of course… that it's only been 15 games.

                  I get it. I really do. We all want JV to be great, and we all start to wring our hands a bit when we feel like he's being held back. But I think the chemistry is so valuable with this group right now that Casey owes it to the entire group - including JV as crazy as that sounds - to keep rolling with what is leading them to so much success. Plus I think we will see more of him down the stretch as the season wears on.
                  Last edited by Fully; Fri Nov 28th, 2014, 11:20 AM.

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                  • Fully wrote: View Post
                    I get what you're saying and we're on the same page for a lot of it.

                    I made the point earlier that I don't think JV deserves a chunk of fourth Q minutes every game simply for being JV, but I do get the frustration over him not even getting the opportunity to show what he can do most nights. How do you change the perception of being a crunch time liability without actually getting any crunch time minutes, right?
                    For me I think he changes that perception by playing better on the defensive end in the first 3 quarters. Casey as well as most NBA coaches put a premium on getting stops during crunch time. Once JV shows that he can consistently contribute towards getting stops then its a no brainer he's the best option to play in the 4th quarter.

                    Comment


                    • One issue I have with this conversation is the constant use of the pejorative "being benched". Arguably JJ has played better than Ross and Lou has played better than DD. Yet they are "benched" at the start of every game. No one gets up in arms over that fact, because that's just the normal rotation,. Maybe it's not JV at all that's the issue - Casey has guys that play great crunch time and he is going with those guys for the most part. Maybe JV is in a situation where Masai has gotten too many good players for him to get regular 4th quarter burn. Maybe he's been instructed to go all out while he's on the court so he doesn't have to pace himself for heavy 4th quarter minutes. I have no clue, but neither do the rest of us.

                      BTW - JV has gotten recent 4th Q crunch time burn; in Utah he came into a 6 pt game with over 6 minutes left, and closed out the game..
                      If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                      Comment


                      • I believe I saw a DanH post that pointed out that JV has had 4th qtr minutes in more than half the games. Perhaps the games where he was playing well, and the match-up suited him? In any case, all this talk of "if he NEVER get's crunch time minutes, he won't develop...." rings kind of hollow as "never" seems to not be reality.

                        How many of those other games can someone actually say the team would have done as well or better if JV was in during crunch time? If we're talking reality, rather than generalities that aren't accurate, how about someone provide an analysis of each of the games he actually didn't see 4th qtr minutes, and perhaps we have something real to debate, as in why or why not he belonged in those games he allegedly was "slighted".

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                        • chico wrote: View Post
                          I believe I saw a DanH post that pointed out that JV has had 4th qtr minutes in more than half the games. Perhaps the games where he was playing well, and the match-up suited him? In any case, all this talk of "if he NEVER get's crunch time minutes, he won't develop...." rings kind of hollow as "never" seems to not be reality.

                          How many of those other games can someone actually say the team would have done as well or better if JV was in during crunch time? If we're talking reality, rather than generalities that aren't accurate, how about someone provide an analysis of each of the games he actually didn't see 4th qtr minutes, and perhaps we have something real to debate, as in why or why not he belonged in those games he allegedly was "slighted".
                          2 recent games right off the top of my head:

                          1. Memphis. Hayes' bulk was keeping Gasol further out, but Gasol was having a field day shooting over him. The defense wasn't improved, but the rebounding suffered without Valanciunas.

                          2. Phoenix. Patterson was useless out there and gave up a ton of rebounds that lead to 2nd chance points. Again, neither big was ideal defensively (due to Phoenix going small), but Valanciunas would've helped significantly on the glass.

                          Comment


                          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            2 recent games right off the top of my head:

                            1. Memphis. Hayes' bulk was keeping Gasol further out, but Gasol was having a field day shooting over him. The defense wasn't improved, but the rebounding suffered without Valanciunas.

                            2. Phoenix. Patterson was useless out there and gave up a ton of rebounds that lead to 2nd chance points. Again, neither big was ideal defensively (due to Phoenix going small), but Valanciunas would've helped significantly on the glass.
                            1. Not sure why you would pick the Memphis game because without Hayes, we lose that game. JV basically had the whole game and Hayes had 10 straight minutes in the 4th Q. Marc Gasol made a couple extremely difficult shots over Hayes, but that was it! Hayes basically kept him out of the paint and off the glass. If you go back to the game thread most posters admitted that Hayes was the MVP of that game. JV was getting abused by Marc Gasol.

                            2. Valanciunas had a monster game against Phoenix. He was 3rd on the team in minutes played that game behind Derozan and Lowry. I can't really complain about his playing time at all. Also, I think the issue was getting out to contest the 3 point shooters NOT rebounding. We did end up losing the rebounding battle by only 5 BUT Phoenix was hot in the 4th so it made sense to get quicker defenders out there to contest shots.

                            The rest of my thoughts are not responding to your points above, but more to the general comments i see in this thread.

                            I honestly think some of us are nitpicking 15 games in. We all know its a long season and JV will get his minutes. He's our starting C, the future, and a very good player barely into his 3rd season. Nothing negative to see here folks. No conspiracy theories.....Just a coaching staff doing what they feel is right and winning games.

                            Some people seem to be stuck in the tank mode..... they need to understand that we will no longer sacrifice games for ANYONE's development. I don't know what's so hard to understand. A poster said he would rather win 50 in the name of development instead of 58.....well you are in the minority. No player is above the team. Most of us want them to win as much as possible and so do the players. JV has a long career ahead of him and he's coming along just fine. He will see PLENTY of 4th quarter minutes. We shouldn't take these games for granted.....only 15 games in. One poster mentioned that only a year ago we were thought of as one of the worst teams in the league......what a big difference a year makes!
                            Last edited by special1; Fri Nov 28th, 2014, 12:56 PM.

                            Comment


                            • special1 wrote: View Post
                              1. Not sure why you would pick the Memphis game because without Hayes, we lose that game. JV basically had the whole game and Hayes had 10 straight minutes in the 4th Q. Marc Gasol made a couple extremely difficult shots over Hayes, but that was it! Hayes basically kept him out of the paint and off the glass. If you go back to the game thread most posters admitted that Hayes was the MVP of that game. JV was getting abused by Marc Gasol.

                              2. Valanciunas had a monster game against Phoenix. He was 3rd on the team in minutes played that game behind Derozan and Lowry. I can't really complain about his playing time at all. Also, I think the issue was getting out to contest the 3 point shooters NOT rebounding. We did end up losing the rebounding battle BUT Phoenix was hot in the 4th so it made sense to get quicker defenders out there to contest shots.

                              The rest of my thoughts are not responding to your points above, but more to the general comments i see in this thread.

                              I honestly think some of us are nitpicking 15 games in. We all know its a long season and JV will get his minutes. He's our starting C, the future, and a very good player barely into his 3rd season. Nothing negative to see here folks. No conspiracy theories.....Just a coaching staff doing what they feel is right and winning games.

                              Some people seem to be stuck in the tank mode..... they need to understand that we will no longer sacrifice games for ANYONE's development. I don't know what's so hard to understand. A poster said he would rather win 50 in the name of development instead of 58.....well you are in the minority. No player is above the team. Most of us want them to win as much as possible and so do the players. JV has a long career ahead of him and he's coming along just fine. He will see PLENTY of 4th quarter minutes. We shouldn't take these games for granted.....only 15 games in. One poster mentioned that only a year ago we were thought of as one of the worst teams in the league......what a big difference a year makes!
                              I'm not disagreeing about Hayes' contribution - I believe I named him as one of my 3 stars for that game. I seem to think that towards the end he was subbed out for Patterson, once he ran out of gas. I certainly wasn't implying that JV should have played all of Hayes' minutes. I just mentioned it as a game he could have gotten back into, moreso after/in addition to Hayes, not instead of him.

                              As for the Phoenix game, I totally get the idea of going small to defend Phoenix's game plan. However, Patterson was useless in this regard, because he was still too slow to defend the smaller guys on the perimeter AND he was awful cleaning up the defensive glass. Hell, I was yelling at my tv to get Fields or even Bruno in the game, to give the Raps another perimeter defender OR bring in JV to at least get rebounds. Patterson wasn't doing either.


                              I also agree with the sentiment that it is nit-picking. Some posters just observed that JV gets very little 4th quarter playing time and zero crunch-time minutes, while expressing a hope that this changes, because he's a much improved player and hardly the defensive liability that he used to be. Suddenly, those posters are attacked and painted with the 'fire DC' and 'JV's development is more important than the team and/or wins' brush, when that was never the case.

                              Comment


                              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                2 recent games right off the top of my head:

                                1. Memphis. Hayes' bulk was keeping Gasol further out, but Gasol was having a field day shooting over him. The defense wasn't improved, but the rebounding suffered without Valanciunas.

                                2. Phoenix. Patterson was useless out there and gave up a ton of rebounds that lead to 2nd chance points. Again, neither big was ideal defensively (due to Phoenix going small), but Valanciunas would've helped significantly on the glass.
                                Thank you. Some actual gametime decisions to talk about.

                                PHX

                                A game JV played more minutes than anyone not named KL/DD, and was brought in with 8:17 left in the 4th. This doesn't quite qualify as a game he didn't play in the 4th, or enough in the game, but how did that 4th play out?

                                - he came in, along with Ross, with score at 80-83 Raps, and PHX totally going small ball with 5 3 pt shooters on the floor.
                                - after PHX sinking a couple more 3s, a few minutes after JV came in, Bledsoe drives to the hoop unimpeded at the rim, for 2 driving layups in 30 seconds, making the score 90-92 Raps with 5 minutes to go.
                                - 15 seconds later, during official timeout, Casey subs in Amir for JV. Is there really any question that Amir is better to have in there against such a line-up? And a line-up that just demonstrated that if you're going to put your big guy out there against this line-up, we'll either get wide open 3s, or drive to the hoop unimpeded for easy layups?
                                - Patterson came in for Lou with 2:51 left, after Lou had made a bad pass TO, then fouled Bledsoe 8 seconds later, who made them both, making the score 95-94 Suns.
                                - Contrary to your assertion about the Suns getting "a ton of rebounds that lead to 2nd chance points", they didn't get a single offensive RB that "Valanciunas would've helped significantly on the glass" with. In fact, Phx only got a single defensive RB the rest of the way, while DD and Patterson (*cough*) both got offensive rebounds, and Patterson sank 2 FTs to put the team ahead for good, with 34 seconds left.

                                The evidence in that game, is that JV played 32 minutes total, had his chance in the fourth, and the sub pattern did produce a win, with this "rebounding" deficiency in crunch time a figment of peoples imagination. Nothing there to gripe about.

                                MEMPHIS

                                - JV played all but 2 minutes of the 1st qtr, and leaves with Raps down 1
                                - JV comes back in with 7:20 left in 2nd, Raps up 3
                                - with JV on the floor, Raps end the half down 6

                                - 5 minutes into 2nd half, Raps now down 7, PPat comes in for JV
                                - 3 minutes later, Raps down 1
                                - Note: starting to see a pattern, in this game, here? JV on the floor isn't exactly helping the cause
                                - Raps fall further behind again, and with 10 minutes left in the game, Grizz up 5, Gasol comes back in and Casey brings in Hayes to deal with him.
                                - anybody who suggests that Hayes defense on Gasol was meaningless because Gasol made some tough shots over some great defense, is taking a twisted view of the game. Shit everybody here was giving him 2 star treatment!
                                - less than 2 minutes later, game was tied, with Raps having 2 RBs to 1, one of them being Chucky's
                                - rebounding the rest of the way was 7-5 in favour of the Raps, and Raps win the game

                                All evidence points very much to JV being of no value in that fourth, as the team was net minus the whole game when he was on the floor, no way he defends Gasol better than Chucky did, and the Raps more than held there own in rebounding down the stretch, for a WIN.

                                ****************************

                                Sorry, but those two examples you provided show just how much perception can be so far off reality. Anybody else want to talk specific games about how JV isn't being treated fairly?

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