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  • S.R. wrote: View Post
    With Boogie Cousins coming up, the MVP play of Anthony Davis, and Drummond finally playing for a good coach...is C the position of the next generation of superstars? So important to develop Jonas.
    No one is going to develop him to his strengths, not in these Raptors.
    Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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    • I really don't understand how this conversation turned to Demar, JV plays a completely different position and role on the team, so more JV doesn't mean less DD.

      The idea that DD isn't elite at getting to the line is complete BS.

      But JV has shown a knack for it too and should get the chance to showcase that skill in crunch time. He's a better rebounder than Patterson or Hayes and has the potential to add a new dimension to the offence. The man should be playing more than 24 mpg.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • RandomGuy wrote: View Post
        No one is going to develop him to his strengths, not in these Raptors.
        I wonder if that makes him a tradable asset.

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        • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
          I wonder if that makes him a tradable asset.
          It does and makes sense for the Raptors if they are looking for defensive big, what is obvious what they except from JV during past seasons and the future. I am not saying that he cannot be one, but this is not developing him to his strengths as I said. His potential is higher on offence, it always was. His confidence on defense comes from offense as well, as strange it may sound, I noticed this during last 6 years of his development.
          Last edited by RandomGuy; Mon Dec 1st, 2014, 02:29 PM.
          Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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          • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
            I wonder if that makes him a tradable asset.
            You've been pushing this for a little while now.

            I don't see why it would make any sense for us to trade JV. Who do you suggest we trade him for?

            We're 13-4 and we're playing the best basketball EVER ....so please explain why it makes sense for us to trade our ONLY true C who's only 22.

            Are you saying this because you think its best for us or are you just looking out for JV?? Do you think he will become a superstar on another team? If so, where? (where would he be the best fit?....and don't say San Antonio). I'm really curious....

            Personally, I believe an organization can only take so much credit for molding a player. At the end of the day he's a starter and plays the 5th most minutes on an Eastern Conference leading team. No excuses..... you're either a gamer or you're not! The cream rises to the top. You can't blame Casey because JV gets enough minutes to show what he can do. He played over 33 minutes last night against the lakers (35 seconds from being the 3rd highest on the team).....is that not enough?
            Last edited by special1; Mon Dec 1st, 2014, 04:25 PM.

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            • A) The only reason I even mentioned the free throws is because someone claimed it was reason enough to keep someone on the floor in crunch time. I simply brought up the fact that JV draws more fouls per shot than DD does, so the same logic should apply.

              B) DeMar being elite at drawing fouls is not written in stone. There are lots of scrubs included, but he is currently ranked 53rd in the NBA in free throw rate. Depends how you define elite. Top 30? Yeah probably fits the bill. Top 5? Don't think you can support that. That said, it is certainly a strength of his and a big asset to the team. Of course, so is JV's ability to draw fouls.

              This isn't a versus scenario - I drew a similarity between the two players, trying to show that both were very good at drawing fouls. Others tried to make it DD vs JV.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                A) The only reason I even mentioned the free throws is because someone claimed it was reason enough to keep someone on the floor in crunch time. I simply brought up the fact that JV draws more fouls per shot than DD does, so the same logic should apply.

                B) DeMar being elite at drawing fouls is not written in stone. There are lots of scrubs included, but he is currently ranked 53rd in the NBA in free throw rate. Depends how you define elite. Top 30? Yeah probably fits the bill. Top 5? Don't think you can support that. That said, it is certainly a strength of his and a big asset to the team. Of course, so is JV's ability to draw fouls.

                This isn't a versus scenario - I drew a similarity between the two players, trying to show that both were very good at drawing fouls. Others tried to make it DD vs JV.
                Nice attempt to take back what you wrote....

                A) The same logic cannot apply because JV doesn't shoot enough! Pump faking doesn't count. JV shoots 7.4 FGA per game vs. Demar who shoots 16.2 FGA per game. Clearly this will affect the rate, but how does the free throw rate affect the actual game if you don't actually shoot the free throws?? Unlike you, I prefer to look at a players ACTUAL output....not what he would do in a hypothetical situation.

                You said that JV was elite at drawing fouls. I think this is misleading at the very least. Where is the evidence that he's elite? Demar shoots FAR more free throws than JV. Demar is 4th in the ENTIRE league at 124 attempts so far. JV is tied for 44th at 67 attempts. Yet, you see no evidence that Demar is Elite?? BS

                B) You said JV is elite at drawing fouls......is that written in stone? If so, where?

                FYI - JV is currently 50th in FTA per game.....Demar is currently 6th.

                http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hrowsAttempted

                If you think you can actually draw any similarities between the two when it comes to drawing fouls.....you really need to go back to watching the games.

                Comment


                • special1 wrote: View Post
                  Nice attempt to take back what you wrote....

                  A) The same logic cannot apply because JV doesn't shoot enough! Pump faking doesn't count. JV shoots 7.4 FGA per game vs. Demar who shoots 16.2 FGA per game. Clearly this will affect the rate, but how does the free throw rate affect the actual game if you don't actually shoot the free throws?? Unlike you, I prefer to look at a players ACTUAL output....not what he would do in a hypothetical situation.

                  You said that JV was elite at drawing fouls. I think this is misleading at the very least. Where is the evidence that he's elite? Demar shoots FAR more free throws than JV. Demar is 4th in the ENTIRE league at 124 attempts so far. JV is tied for 44th at 67 attempts. Yet, you see no evidence that Demar is Elite?? BS

                  B) You said JV is elite at drawing fouls......is that written in stone? If so, where?

                  FYI - JV is currently 50th in FTA per game.....Demar is currently 6th.

                  http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hrowsAttempted

                  If you think you can actually draw any similarities between the two when it comes to drawing fouls.....you really need to go back to watching the games.

                  Common logic alert!!!

                  Maybe he shoots 2 times more free throws, because he holds the rock 3 times more often than JV?

                  Hmmm
                  Last edited by RandomGuy; Mon Dec 1st, 2014, 05:28 PM.
                  Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

                  Comment


                  • The debate should be the merits of ft rate vs. Ft attempts

                    All the usual flaws apply to gross numbers.

                    Rates don't necessarily scale though . It would be interesting to see which players have similar usg and better ft rates than demar
                    "Bruno?
                    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                    He's terrible."

                    -Superjudge, 7/23

                    Hope you're wrong.

                    Comment


                    • RandomGuy wrote: View Post

                      Common logic alert!!!

                      Maybe he shoots 2 times more free throws, because he holds the rock 3 times more often than JV?

                      Hmmm
                      So here's another common logic question for you.....if JV held the ball 3 times longer would he have 3 times more turnovers?? Demar is top 4 in free throw attempts....where would JV be? Would he be #1 in the league?? LOL People need to watch the games and get off the fantasy leagues.... If JV held the rock 3 times more than usual, he would get exposed. Your comparing an all-star to a role player. JV is not there yet and he's very young.....give him time. What JV needs to do is sink those bunnies and AND1's!!

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                      • stooley wrote: View Post
                        The debate should be the merits of ft rate vs. Ft attempts

                        All the usual flaws apply to gross numbers.

                        Rates don't necessarily scale though . It would be interesting to see which players have similar usg and better ft rates than demar
                        Is this really debatable?? Free throw attempts are real shots ....Free throw rate is another useless stat that makes players like JV, Gobert,(insert scrub who plays 10 minutes per game) look good.

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                        • special1 wrote: View Post
                          Is this really debatable?? Free throw attempts are real shots ....Free throw rate is another useless stat that makes players like JV, Gobert,(insert scrub who plays 10 minutes per game) look good.
                          Um yes it is debatable. Kobe scores the most ppg right now. Is he the best scorer in the nba?
                          "Bruno?
                          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                          He's terrible."

                          -Superjudge, 7/23

                          Hope you're wrong.

                          Comment


                          • special1 wrote: View Post
                            So here's another common logic question for you.....if JV held the ball 3 times longer would he have 3 times more turnovers?? Demar is top 4 in free throw attempts....where would JV be? Would he be #1 in the league?? LOL People need to watch the games and get off the fantasy leagues.... If JV held the rock 3 times more than usual, he would get exposed. Your comparing an all-star to a role player. JV is not there yet and he's very young.....give him time. What JV needs to do is sink those bunnies and AND1's!!
                            You are comparing 3rd year player, who did not had chance to develop as option 1/2 starter from year one, playing in a crappy non playoff team, a guy who had all opportunities to develop his game and hinder his weaknesses through lot's of EXPERIENCE and practice. DEMAR IS AWESOME LISTEN TO THIS. It's not me who's trying to put one player in the shelf, by saying that he is not even close. How do you know if you never gave him the same conditions, I mean JV. What's the point for you to battle in this discussion that one player is far superior to the other if both players are on your team, DanH made great points, yet you put all your efforts as it is your die or live moment, to refute his statements.
                            Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

                            Comment


                            • RandomGuy wrote: View Post
                              You are comparing 3rd year player, who did not had chance to develop as option 1/2 starter from year one, playing in a crappy non playoff team, a guy who had all opportunities to develop his game and hinder his weaknesses through lot's of EXPERIENCE and practice. DEMAR IS AWESOME LISTEN TO THIS. It's not me who's trying to put one player in the shelf, by saying that he is not even close. How do you know if you never gave him the same conditions, I mean JV. What's the point for you to battle in this discussion that one player is far superior to the other if both players are on your team, DanH made great points, yet you put all your efforts as it is your die or live moment, to refute his statements.
                              Everyone can see the potential JV has. This is not a debate on his talent.

                              You make it sound like every player has the chance to develop as a 1/2 starter option from year one. Keeping in mind JV started from year one. JV has played on MANY teams for his country (u-19, u-18, etc) where he was the #1 option. Also, if you actually watch the games, this team DOES TRY to establish JV early on.

                              Your right....I love JV and I want him to reach his potential. I would love for him to be right up there or even surpass Demar in FTA OR superstar/all-star status. However, I don't think its fair to put these kind of expectations on the kid. He's only 22....some of the statements i see here will only bring criticism when/if he doesn't reach these seemingly unwarranted expectations.

                              Comment


                              • special1 wrote: View Post
                                Everyone can see the potential JV has. This is not a debate on his talent.

                                You make it sound like every player has the chance to develop as a 1/2 starter option from year one. Keeping in mind JV started from year one. JV has played on MANY teams for his country (u-19, u-18, etc) where he was the #1 option. Also, if you actually watch the games, this team DOES TRY to establish JV early on.

                                Your right....I love JV and I want him to reach his potential. I would love for him to be right up there or even surpass Demar in FTA OR superstar/all-star status. However, I don't think its fair to put these kind of expectations on the kid. He's only 22....some of the statements i see here will only bring criticism when/if he doesn't reach these seemingly unwarranted expectations.
                                Personally I want to throw him in the fire and stop hiding him...it's not helping him...which could potentially be very damaging to the teams future.

                                When he gets opportunity he rarely lets us down anyways. AIE in international play...he dominated teams (including the Gasol brothers)...now all of a sudden he is playing for Casey just standing on the baseline on offense and doing rim runs and looks inadaquate to handle the load. The maths don't add up there.

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