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  • Superjudge wrote: View Post
    I hope not. But he's getting close.... age isn't as important as time in competition. He's had a few years in a top euro role, and now the NBA.... he's gotta get it together this year, or at the least show improvement mentally. I'd be cool with that.
    I disagree with just about any "this year is make or break" player development ultimatums from fans or the media. Especially for a guy who just turned 23.

    Aside from that, JV has been improving on a number of key fronts the past three seasons, including (looking at per 36) a slight uptick in FG% to go along with a larger increase in FGA and PTS, and a significant improvement in TRB and a good reduction in his PF's.

    His main issues are still so closely tied to coaching/system, including defensive role/awareness/response time and passing. But we know where that discussion will head immediately...
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

    Comment


    • Superjudge wrote: View Post
      I hope not. But he's getting close.... age isn't as important as time in competition. He's had a few years in a top euro role, and now the NBA.... he's gotta get it together this year, or at the least show improvement mentally. I'd be cool with that.
      you preach about all of these "incremental" improvements DD has made then dismiss Jonas at age 23 to him having to get it all together.

      Same rules apply, JV has shown actual measurable improvements every year. One would have to allow for that to continue, or trade him and go all in.

      Comment


      • Lithuanian national team is already playing friendly games. They have actually won twice against Australia (Bogut, Dellavedova, Exum, Bairstow are with team already). Bogut played both games. JV is not there because, Raptors will only let him out one month before Eurobasket start (5th September). But that is like two weeks later, than he is expected to join training camp, because as per FIBA rules: "NBA teams must let players join National teams not later, than one month before start of the Competition". Raptors use that all - 'not a day later', while other NBA players are with their teams already. What was he doing in TOR? Training with Sikma was prolly finished already.. And he could play a few games vs Bogut maybe.

        So Jonas will now be forced to adjust into a LT team training plan, which is prolly to reach perfect form for playoffs.., instead of fitting into it all from the start.

        P.S. Reply is not needed. Just saying.

        Comment


        • irgigi wrote: View Post
          Lithuanian national team is already playing friendly games. They have actually won twice against Australia (Bogut, Dellavedova, Exum, Bairstow are with team already). Bogut played both games. JV is not there because, Raptors will only let him out one month before Eurobasket start (5th September). But that is like two weeks later, than he is expected to join training camp, because as per FIBA rules: "NBA teams must let players join National teams not later, than one month before start of the Competition". Raptors use that all - 'not a day later', while other NBA players are with their teams already. What was he doing in TOR? Training with Sikma was prolly finished already.. And he could play a few games vs Bogut maybe.

          So Jonas will now be forced to adjust into a LT team training plan, which is prolly to reach perfect form for playoffs.., instead of fitting into it all from the start.

          P.S. Reply is not needed. Just saying.
          What was he doing in tdot.. well.. let me guess... eating fucking poutine and drinking soda? Of course he was working on his game. Jeez. I respect Jonas' patriotism, but he really needs to spend as much time as possible to adjust his game for today's NBA. just my seventeen cents.

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          • Just don't get me wrong y'all..

            I'm 100% OK with Jonas playing for his country. I just think he really needs to spend more time with his coaches and people who would help him to succeed in today's NBA.

            Comment


            • A little off topic - Last year i read that JV worked w/ Hakeem in the summer? what could Hakeem Olajuwon possibly teach JV? you can't teach Hakeem Olajuwon moves man.

              I know Hakeem has worked with a lot of bigs today like Howard, Amare, Chander etc...I've always wondered, what could he possibly teach all these guys.

              Look at Howard, he's been working with Hakeem for years and he's still the same player.

              I mean, look at this, name me a center TODAY thay can do this.


              Last edited by The Great One; Sun Aug 2, 2015, 12:04 PM.
              Mamba Mentality

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              • Yep, you need to be quick, smart, be able to shoot well. Anthony Davis maybe could master it one day? Hakeem himself didn't have dream shake for many years, he was pretty raw when he came in. I think Hakeem is probably the main reason why we say "big men take longer to develop" today. Before him, big men kind of came into the league and they were pretty close to peak. Hakeem was the first great center who changed his game unrecognizably between young years and prime.

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                • side note...I don't think that is the dream shake
                  For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

                  Comment


                  • JV is massive and long. he should be able to back down in the post and score at a high clip and draw fouls. there arent bonus points for how it looks

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                    • thead wrote: View Post
                      side note...I don't think that is the dream shake
                      It isn't the dream shake.



                      And he is a 52 year old man who Vucevic is treating like ancient porcelain.

                      Not disrespecting Hakeem or taking away from the post up, but this is an international, feel good game.

                      It makes the all-star game look like a defensive showcase.

                      Most guys look like a star on dummy defense.... you should see my footwork.

                      Comment


                      • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                        It isn't the dream shake.



                        And he is a 52 year old man who Vucevic is treating like ancient porcelain.

                        Not disrespecting Hakeem or taking away from the post up, but this is an international, feel good game.


                        It makes the all-star game look like a defensive showcase.

                        Most guys look like a star on dummy defense.... you should see my footwork.
                        Check out the dude in green at the top of the key. He's got an automatic steal if he feels like it.
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

                        Comment


                        • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC5fkye1-dI

                          For the record the move Hakeem is teaching Kobe here is the actual dream shake.

                          That move he did against Vucevic definitely isn't, and I see a few good post bigs do that quite often. Marc Gasol and Aldridge to name a couple.

                          Comment


                          • Snooch wrote: View Post
                            you preach about all of these "incremental" improvements DD has made then dismiss Jonas at age 23 to him having to get it all together.
                            Hahaha.

                            as per usual, you guys, S.R. did the same thing, ignore, flat out ignore parts of what I post when you respond. I clearly made reference to his age, and, stated that age is NOT as important as time spent in competition. Jonas isn't some 23 year old whelp just seeing NBA play for the first time, the kid has been a pro since he was 16-17. You wanna dispute the importance of that, thats cool, but don't just ignore it.

                            When a guy comes to the NBA as a 5th pick, after he has just taken a year to develop in the top euro league after that draft, he should be ahead pf his peers. Period. was Jonas ahead of his class when he final came? Is he now??

                            As per usual you can't talk about a raptor player here objectively without his fans losing their fucking minds. Nobody is saying JV is shit, just saying he's had enough time to start showing he isn't a scrub. any Center worth his salt by year 4 should at least be able to make something happen past easy lays ins off offensive rebounds. JV is about as offensively and defensively aware as a drunk Ardvark most nights, and as Jack says.... some guys are "players" and some aren't.

                            So what do you want from an objective mind if not he truth. Guys here go on and on about DC and how its HIS fault for not utilizing JV properly...holy shit, what games you guys watching. this kid get the ball so many times, and usually early in games, 10-15 foot out on ISO's and what does he do with these opportunities???? An absolutely embarrassing pump fake, EVERYTIME. never substantiated by an actual shot, and rarely, and I mean RARELY followed by a power move or even the most basic back down. And when he does...he bobbles the rock or has it picked. Of, but he's 23. yeah, a 23 year old 5 year vet of pro ball.

                            Anyone defending him and making excuses is being silly. While I repeat, he is NOT by any means finished growing a sa player.... he certainly should be fucking better, and this year, he had better be MUCH better. Or, he's just a guy, not a bad one, but not a game changer. And not worth max cash.

                            Thats just an unbiased opinion.

                            Comment


                            • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                              When a guy comes to the NBA as a 5th pick, after he has just taken a year to develop in the top euro league after that draft, he should be ahead pf his peers. Period. was Jonas ahead of his class when he final came? Is he now??
                              The interesting thing is about this idea is that it has two facets: a) how do he and the others in his class, play against everyone else in the league, and b) how does he play against his own class. To be clear, I'll use an example - take Jonas vs. Drummond. When you look at them both vs. the rest of the league, each has their strengths and weaknesses, and you can make a good case that either one will have turned out to be the better player when all's said and done. But when you look at them head to head, it isn't really close IMO - Jonas tends to destroy Drummond. And I'd say that this generally holds true across the rest of league; he plays very well against other young bigs, but he doesn't distinguish himself from his peers nearly as much when you look at how they all play against the rest of the league.

                              I think this is a good thing, because it suggests when he and his peers are all in their primes, he's going to have the advantage.
                              Last edited by JimiCliff; Sun Aug 2, 2015, 05:52 PM.
                              "Stop eating your sushi."
                              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                              - Jack Armstrong

                              Comment


                              • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                                Hahaha.

                                as per usual, you guys, S.R. did the same thing, ignore, flat out ignore parts of what I post when you respond. I clearly made reference to his age, and, stated that age is NOT as important as time spent in competition. Jonas isn't some 23 year old whelp just seeing NBA play for the first time, the kid has been a pro since he was 16-17. You wanna dispute the importance of that, thats cool, but don't just ignore it.
                                I read your entire poist, most of it was pointless drivel that was not worthy of responding to fully, I questioned a point you made that was a fallacy and a double standard.
                                When a guy comes to the NBA as a 5th pick, after he has just taken a year to develop in the top euro league after that draft, he should be ahead pf his peers. Period. was Jonas ahead of his class when he final came? Is he now??

                                As per usual you can't talk about a raptor player here objectively without his fans losing their fucking minds. Nobody is saying JV is shit, just saying he's had enough time to start showing he isn't a scrub. any Center worth his salt by year 4 should at least be able to make something happen past easy lays ins off offensive rebounds. JV is about as offensively and defensively aware as a drunk Ardvark most nights, and as Jack says.... some guys are "players" and some aren't.
                                That is complete and utter shit, JV was one of the highest rated offensive players on the team, nay, the league last season and also carried a very high ts%. If he can give be 16-18 points and his 8-9 rebounds on high percentages then what the fuck do you want. A Prime Sabonis is his <30 minutes per game while not having a single play ran for him past the 4 minute mark of the first quarter? PErhaps he should pull an Elvin Hayes and get the defensive rebound, lead the break, post up on the other end and take and make the shot.

                                So what do you want from an objective mind if not he truth.
                                I am beginning to think you have replaced objective with ignorant.

                                Guys here go on and on about DC and how its HIS fault for not utilizing JV properly...holy shit, what games you guys watching. this kid get the ball so many times, and usually early in games, 10-15 foot out on ISO's and what does he do with these opportunities???? An absolutely embarrassing pump fake, EVERYTIME. never substantiated by an actual shot, and rarely, and I mean RARELY followed by a power move or even the most basic back down. And when he does...he bobbles the rock or has it picked.
                                That is complete nonsense, if he was so brutal at these posessions he would not have produced the efficiency that he did. But even if he was as bad as you are pretending, why the fuck is the team putting him in that position to begin with, I mean to say it isnt like he was one of our shooting guards who took two dribbles, throw up an embarassing pump fake EVERYTIME, and ALWAYS followed up by an offbalanced jumper that he makes 40% og the time. But yeah that is all on JV, not the coach or teamates for allowing it to happen.

                                Of, but he's 23. yeah, a 23 year old 5 year vet of pro ball.
                                PLaying in Europe, off the bench as a 16-17 year old is no where near the same as even playing in the NCAA, much less the nba. Give you head a shake.

                                Anyone defending him and making excuses is being silly. While I repeat, he is NOT by any means finished growing a sa player.... he certainly should be fucking better, and this year, he had better be MUCH better. Or, he's just a guy, not a bad one, but not a game changer. And not worth max cash.
                                All things being said is entirely relevant and based in observation of many many ,many basketball minds. Key To Success, get JV involved early, get jv going etc. And the whole max value player can be said for more than 1 guy on this team. So if you are gonna go all preachy on behalf on some players, you cant shit on others for the EXACT same reason you defend some.

                                Thats just an unbiased opinion.[/QUOTE]
                                Last edited by Snooch; Sun Aug 2, 2015, 08:35 PM.

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