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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    NBA Players in Vegas for summer league were asked who the raptors best player is. JV got no votes.

    A) DeMar DeRozan

    B) Kyle Lowry

    C) DeMarre Carroll
    This is not at all surprising. And I'm not even suggesting that it isn't the case. Demarre is an excellent and established SF. Kyle and DD are both 1 time all stars. They are certainly better known and they even get to play in fourth quarters when the games are on the line.

    I would however be far more interested to hear what GM's around the league thought, or even coaches regarding their comparative value and upside.

    What I am suggesting, for reasons already provided, is that JV is the better (and more valuable) 'asset', than DD specifically, but likely all of them. He is still on his rookie contract. I also happen to think he has the potential to be a perennial all star not a once (or twice) off. And given he just turned 23 a few months ago I think his upside is substantial. And not just his age, from watching his development and improvement. I think he improved dramatically last year and look for more significant improvement this year. I believe Casey has hurt his (our best asset's) development, which is part of why I want him fired.

    Comment


    • Joey wrote: View Post
      Seriously. I just went through a whole page of Derozan, and its always the same people who bring DD into other threads and then go on to dominate the conversation.

      If you NEEEEED to talk DD, then do it in the DD thread. Getting tired of this.
      But I need to get my completely correct opinion across to the masses!

      Comment


      • Why not just agree to disagree?

        Comment


        • http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...760#start_here

          okay guys why do people outside of raptors fans treat him so low

          like I would never trade JV for a BYK pick unless it top 3

          but all those people are saying how boston would never trade that pick for JV

          people are saying things like "I don't know if Vala is worth THAT much more than Sully"
          Abbas wrote:

          First of all i was my own source

          Comment


          • Abbas wrote: View Post
            http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...760#start_here

            okay guys why do people outside of raptors fans treat him so low

            like I would never trade JV for a BYK pick unless it top 3

            but all those people are saying how boston would never trade that pick for JV

            people are saying things like "I don't know if Vala is worth THAT much more than Sully"
            Every time a DD trade comes up those same people believe he's not worth a pick in the low teens even.

            Seriously look through that Board and see what they say about the majority of trades. There a bunch of idiots.
            "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

            Comment


            • Val is gonna be a baller this year, a young hakeem 94-95', book it
              #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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              • I would offer JV a contract worth 500k less than the project max

                That way if the cap is higher than expected we gain extra since we won't be locking him up at a percentage, but rather a dollar value.

                Hope MU sees it the same way and that JV's agent is ok with doing so (on a near max contract he should be)

                JV is worth the big contract, even more so with how the league is focusing on small ball. One of the reason why Memphis has such success without any three point shooting is their big guys. Skilled bigs win games. We should be trying to emulate them, as it has proven very consistent. The GS/small ball route seems more volatile...we could end up like GS, like PHX, like the Bosh Raptors...Small ball requires a set of very adaptable players, and an opponent with no skilled big man. You put someone like Boogie in the finals and GS can't go small...or they would suffer Boogie going for a triple double every game and taking over the series

                Comment


                • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                  I would offer JV a contract worth 500k less than the project max

                  That way if the cap is higher than expected we gain extra since we won't be locking him up at a percentage, but rather a dollar value.


                  Hope MU sees it the same way and that JV's agent is ok with doing so (on a near max contract he should be)

                  JV is worth the big contract, even more so with how the league is focusing on small ball. One of the reason why Memphis has such success without any three point shooting is their big guys. Skilled bigs win games. We should be trying to emulate them, as it has proven very consistent. The GS/small ball route seems more volatile...we could end up like GS, like PHX, like the Bosh Raptors...Small ball requires a set of very adaptable players, and an opponent with no skilled big man. You put someone like Boogie in the finals and GS can't go small...or they would suffer Boogie going for a triple double every game and taking over the series
                  Lol somebody's been reading Grantland I see.

                  Totally agree with you on Val though. Need to be punishing this small ball nonsense inside. The few games where we do go to JV you usually see the opponent has no freaking clue what to do defensively. A scoring big = consistent baskets = the most difficult thing to stop in basketball. Plus it'd only make things that much easier for DD and Lowry to get theirs too.

                  Sadly, JV will continue to be used like Robin Lopez on offense and I will continue to collect concussion after concussion as I bang my head against the wall of my apartment
                  Last edited by JWash; Wed Aug 5, 2015, 06:51 PM.

                  Comment


                  • JWash wrote: View Post
                    Lol somebody's been reading Grantland I see.

                    Totally agree with you on Val though. Need to be punishing this small ball nonsense inside. The few games where we do go to JV you usually see the opponent has no freaking clue what to do defensively. A scoring big = consistent baskets = the most difficult thing to stop in basketball. Plus it'd only make things that much easier for DD and Lowry to get theirs too.

                    Sadly, JV will continue to be used like Robin Lopez on offense and I will continue to collect concussion after concussion as I bang my head against the wall of my apartment
                    Guilty as charged. It's a sound concept though that can potentially save you money

                    *shudders at another Robin Lopez/JV usage season with Casey at the helm...why should we expect any different though?

                    Comment


                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      Do you have ANY evidence to support such a statement?

                      I'll start. DeRozan posted a negative DRPM last year. He also posted a negative DRPM the year before.

                      He had the third worst individual DRTG of the regulars, ahead of only Vasquez and Ross. And was ahead of only Ross, Vasquez and Lou in DWS/48 among he regulars. That places him 8th and 6th out of 10 regulars on the team - a team chock full of poor defenders. And he's not above average in THAT group.
                      Did you know Al Jefferson finished 14th in the league in DRTG among qualified players? Check http://www.basketball-reference.com/...5_leaders.html and see it for yourself. He was also 3 points better than his teammate MKG who some (including me) sees as a true defensive stopper.

                      The question begs to be asked, how reliable is DRTG as a measure of an individual's defensive prowess?

                      Consider another statistics found at this page: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/

                      The Raptors ORTG was 107.9 while Jonas was on the floor and 115.0 when he was not. That's a huge negative difference and when you consider JV's ORTG is 121 (second behind PP's 122), it may sound counter-intuitive. Bizarre, no?

                      Not really.

                      Are his on-off stats a better reflection of JV's value than his individual ORTG and DRTG? I'd say yes but there is an awful lot of noise in there.

                      Just a personal opinion but I believe JV would look much better if he was surrounded by players that complement his skills much better. But to build around him (or DeMar for that matter) is folly because he is not that good. I am not sure why people are putting so much weight on JV's percentages when we had Ed Davis a few years ago and Ed's percentages were certainly higher than his real value. I am not saying he is no more valuable than ED was for us, just that people are overvaluing JV.

                      Comment


                      • BS10 wrote: View Post
                        Val is gonna be a baller this year, a young hakeem 94-95', book it
                        lmfao i cant tell if ur joking

                        JV will never even "dream" of averaging 28/11/4/3/2 for a week let alone a whole season
                        Abbas wrote:

                        First of all i was my own source

                        Comment


                        • JWash wrote: View Post
                          Lol somebody's been reading Grantland I see.

                          Totally agree with you on Val though. Need to be punishing this small ball nonsense inside. The few games where we do go to JV you usually see the opponent has no freaking clue what to do defensively. A scoring big = consistent baskets = the most difficult thing to stop in basketball. Plus it'd only make things that much easier for DD and Lowry to get theirs too.

                          Sadly, JV will continue to be used like Robin Lopez on offense and I will continue to collect concussion after concussion as I bang my head against the wall of my apartment
                          I usually watch Raptors games in a padded room. With a straitjacket.
                          OG is our king

                          Comment


                          • consmap wrote: View Post
                            I usually watch Raptors games in a padded room. With a straitjacket.
                            may have to start doing this...

                            Comment


                            • OMG.

                              "JV is used poorly"
                              "system not for JV"
                              "coach doesn't utilize JV"

                              STOP!!!!!!

                              For the guys that have actually played.... aside from iso's at the elbow or baseline (which JV is horrible at using) what have you ever seen run consistently for bigs on your team but Post ups?

                              Toronto goes low to JV early is so many games, and SO MANY times it is either a missed shot, or a turnover. Games aren't his personal training time. His mates stop using him because of this. Likely he will get bette ran dthat will change but its on him, NOBODY else.

                              What ever happened to young guys, and bigs getting their points and making their mark of hustle and simply playing the game hard. He does that now, and it works for him and his effectiveness lies there, as it does for ALL young players. All this BS about how hard done by JV is is a complete pile of dung.

                              ts gotta stop boys.

                              Comment


                              • Really hopeful that JV is working on his passing with Sabonis as we speak.

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