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  • Superjudge wrote: View Post
    I might not even disagree that he is being held... i just disagree as to whether or not its a good idea.

    They are taking time with this guy. he needs to be stronger upstairs and he knows it. They don't want him to be average, or just above, they want him to learn to be a star.... I actually think he can do it.
    This might be true, I doubt it. But it could be possible that the Raptors staff believes that putting JV on a really short leash is going to make him a better player.

    To be honest there MIGHT be a valid point there. DeRozan having no leash whatsoever allowed him to develop some really bad habits and tendencies during his development. Maybe they're trying to prevent that from happening with JV... however I don't think that warrants sitting him in fourth quarters and treating him like a 5th or 6th option on offense.

    What worries me though is the constant small-ball talk from Casey, makes it seems like that is NOT really the intention, and it's more about just not wanting to play a center in big moments.

    Comment


    • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
      There is no substitute for in game experience. None.

      I was a total late bloomer. I didn't break out until a guy ahead of me got injured. I struggled at first but it was playing in games and learning from in game experience that sent my development on exponential curve.

      All the other stuff is a given. Without in game reps it doesn't matter.
      Just because it worked with you, doesn't mean it works with NBA players. Also with JV, we're not talking end of the bench vs playing time. Were talking 26-28 minutes per game vs 30+ minutes per game. If you really believe those extra 5 minutes or so will cause him to grow exponentially, then I can see why you think the Raptors org are such fuckups.
      If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

      Comment


      • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
        Counterpart to thatt, Tyler Hansbrough's PnR frequency was 21.2%, Patrick Patterson 17.0%, Amir Johnson 24.1%, and Jonas Valanciunas 8.5% . half of the second lowest player.

        Is such a low frequency an indication of JV's inability to execute the PnR correctly?
        Nope. JV came into the league as an elite PnR finisher for his draft class. The issue is Lowry and for some reason, GV wasn't running too many PnRs, even though he's good at it. Jose was sorely missed by both Amir and JV - he gave them easy PnR buckets, for sure.

        the young Lithuanian excels in a few key areas. His terrific effort level and hands made him a terrific pick and roll finisher. When Valanciunas was on the court for Rytas, he was asked to play hard and spend a considerable amount of time setting screens out on the perimeter. Roll man situations accounted for nearly a quarter of his touches (2nd) and he scored on an absurd 73% of his possessions when catching the ball rolling to the rim.
        http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...anciunas-5622/

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        • JWash wrote: View Post
          This might be true, I doubt it. But it could be possible that the Raptors staff believes that putting JV on a really short leash is going to make him a better player.

          To be honest there MIGHT be a valid point there. DeRozan having no leash whatsoever allowed him to develop some really bad habits and tendencies during his development. Maybe they're trying to prevent that from happening with JV... however I don't think that warrants sitting him in fourth quarters and treating him like a 5th or 6th option on offense.

          What worries me though is the constant small-ball talk from Casey, makes it seems like that is NOT really the intention, and it's more about just not wanting to play a center in big moments.
          Its hard to say. But I do know this, a big man, who can hit ft's is deadly in a tight game IF he can defend wisely. JV falls short with the wisely part, and no, you can't just "play through it" all the time if a team is trying to win.

          He learned from those benchings.
          He is a smart guy, he will have gained. One would hope anyhow.

          so my thoughts, if he continues to improve where he needs to most, and if this year is another growth year, then when it comes time to sign a MAJOR star in 16, he will then be ready for a bigger role himself, and the team will then be in postition to actually contend.

          Best case, late summer scenario hahaha

          Comment


          • Snooch wrote: View Post
            the point is, why are his minutes limited. Statistically he is showing that his faults werent costing the team any more than anyone elses, but his pros FAR outweighed ANYONES on the team
            @Chr1st1anL

            Comment


            • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
              Just because it worked with you, doesn't mean it works with NBA players. Also with JV, we're not talking end of the bench vs playing time. Were talking 26-28 minutes per game vs 30+ minutes per game. If you really believe those extra 5 minutes or so will cause him to grow exponentially, then I can see why you think the Raptors org are such fuckups.
              Matt can answer for himself, but there's a difference between: empty minutes, productive minutes and even destructive minutes. You can play 48 minutes a game, but if you're not "playing the right way" (as Larry Brown puts it), then you're either doing nothing to improve or potentially doing harm to your development.

              Comment


              • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                Just because it worked with you, doesn't mean it works with NBA players. Also with JV, we're not talking end of the bench vs playing time. Were talking 26-28 minutes per game vs 30+ minutes per game. If you really believe those extra 5 minutes or so will cause him to grow exponentially, then I can see why you think the Raptors org are such fuckups.
                I don't know how to say this without sounding like a total prick so I'll just say it.

                Your post makes you come across as young or having never played at a high level or possibly both.

                There is zero substitute for live game experience at any level. You can't mimic it in practice or drills.

                The skill development and training is all a given. Why do you think the 905 is being so highly well received in all fronts? Game time matters.

                What you fail to grasp is 5 minutes per game over his entire 223 games played is another 1000 minutes (400 last year alone). So yes, 5 minutes matters.

                As for 4th Q, they matter too. Like the difference between practice and game, there is nothing like crunch time minutes than crunch time minutes.

                Comment


                • golden wrote: View Post
                  Nope. JV came into the league as an elite PnR finisher for his draft class. The issue is Lowry and for some reason, GV wasn't running too many PnRs, even though he's good at it. Jose was sorely missed by both Amir and JV - he gave them easy PnR buckets, for sure.



                  http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...anciunas-5622/
                  He is still good.

                  78th percentile.

                  He just doesn't get much opportunity.

                  Comment


                  • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                    Just because it worked with you, doesn't mean it works with NBA players. Also with JV, we're not talking end of the bench vs playing time. Were talking 26-28 minutes per game vs 30+ minutes per game. If you really believe those extra 5 minutes or so will cause him to grow exponentially, then I can see why you think the Raptors org are such fuckups.
                    He isnt needed to grow expnentially.

                    Based on a very simple performance per minute of last seasons numbers with a 5 minute per game increase, and all other variables remaining the same....

                    15ppg
                    10.2rpg
                    1apg
                    .5sph
                    1.5bpg

                    But as well al clamour for not only an extra few minutes, but an increase in his opportunity per minutes player you are looking at, most likely, a 17-18 ppg, 10 rpg, 1-2 apg, 1.5bpg player. that is fantastic

                    Comment


                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      Valanciunas’s on court/off court splits back this up; with Jonas on the floor, the Raptors have an effective field goal percentage of 49.7% and a true shooting percentage of 54.1%, viaNBA.com/stats. When he leaves, though, those figures jump to 51.5% and 56.1%, respectively. In addition, the pace jumps by an extra possession per game. Both Patterson and Amir Johnson are far better passers, with assist ratios (assists per 100 possessions) of 18.5% and 14.1%, respectively; Valanciunas’s is a truly paltry 3.6%, via*NBA.com/stats. Jonas is using possessions efficiently enough when he gets the ball, but his inability to pass out of the post or take more long twos has undoubtedly hindered the positive effects of his game.
                      His passing needs improvement, sure, but you need to also look at his opportunity to pass when looking at his ability to pass. When Jonas gets the ball on the block, not often does anyone make themselves available to receive that pass.

                      And if he is in the key, he shouldn't be passing it out, instead hold onto that thing with all his might and go up strong.

                      And Jonas has the highest shooting percentages on the team, so the team having a better fg% overall with him off the floor must have other things adding into those numbers to skew them.

                      Comment


                      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                        Valanciunas’s on court/off court splits back this up; with Jonas on the floor, the Raptors have an effective field goal percentage of 49.7% and a true shooting percentage of 54.1%, viaNBA.com/stats. When he leaves, though, those figures jump to 51.5% and 56.1%, respectively. In addition, the pace jumps by an extra possession per game. Both Patterson and Amir Johnson are far better passers, with assist ratios (assists per 100 possessions) of 18.5% and 14.1%, respectively; Valanciunas’s is a truly paltry 3.6%, via*NBA.com/stats. Jonas is using possessions efficiently enough when he gets the ball, but his inability to pass out of the post or take more long twos has undoubtedly hindered the positive effects of his game.
                        The on/off numbers are likely a result of the Raps deep bench destroying other team's benches. Notice that Lowry and DD are also net negative for team ORTG on/off; PPat, Lou and even Hansbrough and Hayes are net positives.

                        http://www.basketball-reference.com/...R/2015/on-off/
                        Last edited by golden; Thu Aug 6, 2015, 12:52 PM.

                        Comment


                        • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                          I don't know how to say this without sounding like a total prick so I'll just say it.

                          Your post makes you come across as young or having never played at a high level or possibly both.

                          There is zero substitute for live game experience at any level. You can't mimic it in practice or drills.

                          The skill development and training is all a given. Why do you think the 905 is being so highly well received in all fronts? Game time matters.

                          What you fail to grasp is 5 minutes per game over his entire 223 games played is another 1000 minutes (400 last year alone). So yes, 5 minutes matters.

                          As for 4th Q, they matter too. Like the difference between practice and game, there is nothing like crunch time minutes than crunch time minutes.
                          I never played beyond high school. Not sure what the high level you played at, though I'll guess it wasn't the NBA either. And yeah, the lower the level, the more important extra playing time is for development.

                          I'm not saying extra playing time doesn't matter at all, in JV's case it matters less than you make it seem.. Whether JV succeeds or fails is hugely important to the Raptors' franchise. If the extra 400 minutes last year truly were as important as you believe, why wouldn't Masai have stepped in and ordered Casey to play him those extra minutes? If Casey balked, it would be far easier to replace Casey than replace JV.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                          Comment


                          • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                            If the extra 400 minutes last year truly were as important as you believe, why wouldn't Masai have stepped in and ordered Casey to play him those extra minutes? If Casey balked, it would be far easier to replace Casey than replace JV.
                            Because a gm shouldn't micromanage. it causes dissension in the ranks.

                            Comment


                            • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                              I never played beyond high school. Not sure what the high level you played at, though I'll guess it wasn't the NBA either. And yeah, the lower the level, the more important extra playing time is for development.

                              I'm not saying extra playing time doesn't matter at all, in JV's case it matters less than you make it seem.. Whether JV succeeds or fails is hugely important to the Raptors' franchise. If the extra 400 minutes last year truly were as important as you believe, why wouldn't Masai have stepped in and ordered Casey to play him those extra minutes? If Casey balked, it would be far easier to replace Casey than replace JV.
                              I will just agree to disagree with you.

                              As for Masai and Casey, in season is not the time for a GM to order a coach minutes. Masai did state very clearly post season that he would discuss JVs role and that it would increase moving forward..

                              Comment


                              • Snooch wrote: View Post
                                Because a gm shouldn't micromanage. it causes dissension in the ranks.
                                Playing time for the most important player on the team is not micromanaging. And as McHappy posted, Masai stated JV's minutes were discussed, and I'm sure they were discussed the prior season as well.
                                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                                Comment

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