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  • Fully wrote: View Post
    In back-to-back posts you've advocated for JV not passing the ball because he's the best offensive player and then saying that the reason he doesn't pass is because he doesn't get the ball. You need to consolidate your thoughts.

    Also, I think you continue to misuse the usage stat, or at the very least fail to give it the proper context it deserves (intentionally or not I'm not sure). You make it seem like JV is in this stratosphere by himself when it comes to low usage for big men at 19.1%. There are plenty of superior post players who are marginally ahead of him (P. Gasol, 24.7%, M. Gasol 24.6%, Horford, 22.2%) and some decent posts that come in even lower (Gortat - 17.7%, Mozgov - 16.9%, Noah 13.3%) and manage to be superior playmakers as well. Yes, JV is 7th on the team in usage which is too low and will hopefully be adjusted this season but you need to realize that centres and posts who are top 3 on their team in usage are the exception and not the norm.

    Noah is a great example about the fallacy of your argument actually - he's never had a season that was higher than JV's usage rate this season and yet he's been one of the best passing big men in the NBA year after year. But how? He never gets the ball!

    And the Deandre Jordan thing I'm not even sure what you meant.
    I have never said he doesn't need to work on his playmaking, merely pointed out that with such a terrible usage and role on this team that it contributes to the problem.

    I do not think he is the worst bigman in the NBA for passing, merely needs improvement and is misused.

    Noah and gasol are not put in the same situation offensively as jv. So therefore they have more opportunity.

    And Low usage on an ISO heavy team is a very telling statistic.

    Comment


    • Fully wrote: View Post
      256 players played over 1000 minutes or more this past year in the league..

      In terms of assists per game, JV ranks 250th out of those 256.
      In total assists, JV ranks 254th out of 256. (He played 1800 minutes btw, nearly double the qualifying mark)
      In assist percentage, JV ranks 255th out of 256 players.

      205 players played over 25 minutes per game last year…

      JV is 204th of 205 in assists that directly lead to free throws for a teammate.
      JV is 204th of 205 in secondary assists aka the hockey assist per game.
      JV is dead last in assist opportunities per game.
      JV is dead last in points created by assist per game.
      His assist numbers are directly correlated to his involvement on offense - 8 field goal attempts per game of which approximately 4.5 are post ups (363 possessions divided by 80 games) - and limited teammate movement.

      So realistically he has 4-5 opportunities per game to get a shot or create an assist but manages about 0.9 assist opportunities.

      ....and don't forget he produces 1.02 points per post up possession which is 88th percentile/elite.

      CONTEXT indeed.

      Comment


      • JV has not passed the ball much, that is a fact. How much of that falls on him and how much falls on the system? Time will tell, but I'd guess a bit of both. He needs to develop and the system needs to be better. But considering his FG% vs. most of his teammates last year, I'm glad he didn't pass more
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • S.R. wrote: View Post
          JV has not passed the ball much, that is a fact. How much of that falls on him and how much falls on the system? Time will tell, but I'd guess a bit of both. He needs to develop and the system needs to be better. But considering his FG% vs. most of his teammates last year, I'm glad he didn't pass more
          Yeah I should make clear I don't think he is a good passer at this time.

          I just find this as a basis for criticism a little ridiculous given the realities of his situation and role within team offense. Casey gave him the Bill Cartwright treatment all year.

          Comment


          • Dude I applaud you for even trying to mention anything negative about JV and to boot, all by yourself. JV's not perfect, there's a s**t ton of things he needs to work on but you can't say it without people immediately blaming the selfish team and the selfish guards for all his shortcomings.

            I, like you, have not drunk the JV kool-aid. I like him though; I see his potential AND i 100% agree with everyone that he needs more touches. But to act like the guy is perfect and for some, think he should be our go-to guy is ridiculous. He does not have nearly enough post moves, he does not have that good a shot (and if he does, he lacks the confidence to take it), and he's not that great a passer out of the post. That's not a #1 guy on a team that already has 2 all-stars on it.

            But not sure if you know this based on the numbers, but does JV's passing stats look better during the 6 weeks when DeMar was out? If the excuse is that JV never gets the ball enough because DD is hogging it, what were his passing stats when he was one of our go-to guys during that time and got way more touches?

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            • DDelight wrote: View Post
              Dude I applaud you for even trying to mention anything negative about JV and to boot, all by yourself. JV's not perfect, there's a s**t ton of things he needs to work on but you can't say it without people immediately blaming the selfish team and the selfish guards for all his shortcomings.

              I, like you, have not drunk the JV kool-aid. I like him though; I see his potential AND i 100% agree with everyone that he needs more touches. But to act like the guy is perfect and for some, think he should be our go-to guy is ridiculous. He does not have nearly enough post moves, he does not have that good a shot (and if he does, he lacks the confidence to take it), and he's not that great a passer out of the post. That's not a #1 guy on a team that already has 2 all-stars on it.

              But not sure if you know this based on the numbers, but does JV's passing stats look better during the 6 weeks when DeMar was out? If the excuse is that JV never gets the ball enough because DD is hogging it, what were his passing stats when he was one of our go-to guys during that time and got way more touches?
              I thought Raps had 1 all-star.

              JV should not be the focal point on offense. He hasn't shown that ability.

              Definitely agree he needs more touches.

              Whole team needs more on and off ball movement.


              Your last paragraph is misleading to say least. During DDs absence JV averaged about 1.1 more shots per game. That narrative is not in line with what actually happened. Casey merely plugged in Ross or Vasquez or Lou and team ran same plays with same sets and similar outcomes.

              Comment


              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                I thought Raps had 1 all-star.

                JV should not be the focal point on offense. He hasn't shown that ability.

                Definitely agree he needs more touches.

                Whole team needs more on and off ball movement.


                Your last paragraph is misleading to say least. During DDs absence JV averaged about 1.1 more shots per game. That narrative is not in line with what actually happened. Casey merely plugged in Ross or Vasquez or Lou and team ran same plays with same sets and similar outcomes.
                He got more touches. Especially at the beginning of the game. Now whether it all evened out in the end because he was being benched in the 4th, i don't know. But he definitely was a bigger option out there during DD's absence. I saw a NOTICEABLE difference just from my eyes once DeMar came back and the drop in JV's touches.

                Last season was a wash for DeMar. He literally had no chance of being an all-star considering the players were picked so soon after he returned from injury. But how he played for the last significant portion of the season was worthy of being an all-star. And I'm assuming you're counting Lowry as the 1 all star? He played horrible for more games last season than he actually played well. Like he literally was worse than DeMar, even in the playoffs, which is saying a lot...

                Comment


                • Fully wrote: View Post
                  The numbers certainly show him to not just be a subpar playmaker, but like I said earlier, literally the least prolific one in basketball last season. If you think you see something else using the eye test, then I guess we'll agree to disagree. I think he lacks offensive awareness and feel for anything outside of getting his own shot when he has great position. Thankfully he's not a finished product!
                  This is a really great point and I don't think should be glossed over. When JV has the ball, I don't think he really knows what's happening on the offence or is looking for opportunities to creating for his teammates. I don't think I've ever remembered a possession where he attempted to kick it out to other teammates rather than trying to score. Although he might be a solid post scorer, I think he needs to keep the defence on their toes with passing the ball to allow opportunities elsewhere when he has already established himself as a scoring threat during the game.

                  This isn't to say that he is a bad offensive player. I think he needs to have a little bit more awareness during the offence and know where other players on the team are on the court, especially when he's already made a couple baskets in the low post. Luckily, he has time on his side to improve upon his skills and his offensive abilities.

                  Also, I want to see his mid-range shot to keep the defence on their toes. I haven't seen him attempt any of those yet. This is something he needs to develop to become a more complete offensive player.
                  Last edited by BS10; Wed Sep 9, 2015, 01:05 AM.
                  #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

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                  • DDelight wrote: View Post
                    He got more touches. Especially at the beginning of the game. Now whether it all evened out in the end because he was being benched in the 4th, i don't know. But he definitely was a bigger option out there during DD's absence. I saw a NOTICEABLE difference just from my eyes once DeMar came back and the drop in JV's touches.

                    Last season was a wash for DeMar. He literally had no chance of being an all-star considering the players were picked so soon after he returned from injury. But how he played for the last significant portion of the season was worthy of being an all-star. And I'm assuming you're counting Lowry as the 1 all star? He played horrible for more games last season than he actually played well. Like he literally was worse than DeMar, even in the playoffs, which is saying a lot...
                    someone gives you statistics and you respond with "he got more touches" and "I saw a NOTICEABLE difference just from my eyes"? classic.

                    Anyways, nobody is really advocating valanciunas to be the #1 option / focal point. But he should be a more preferred option than Demar "DeFinition of a volume shooter" Derozan when you have a full 24. The real #1 option on this squad is going to have to wait until next summer (hopefully).

                    Comment


                    • KHD wrote: View Post
                      someone gives you statistics and you respond with "he got more touches" and "I saw a NOTICEABLE difference just from my eyes"? classic.

                      Anyways, nobody is really advocating valanciunas to be the #1 option / focal point. But he should be a more preferred option than Demar "DeFinition of a volume shooter" Derozan when you have a full 24. The real #1 option on this squad is going to have to wait until next summer (hopefully).
                      Right, but was his stat about touches? Or was his stat about shots? Because the 2 are different no? He could have been getting more touches but it may not always lead to more shots if he was passing it or getting stripped or getting fouled. Or am I wrong? I know you stats geeks really get off on the numbers but sometimes the eye test can say more than a particular stat.

                      Now if you wanna come back with a stat that showed his touches didn't increase then I'll shut up

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                      • DDelight wrote: View Post
                        Right, but was his stat about touches? Or was his stat about shots? Because the 2 are different no? He could have been getting more touches but it may not always lead to more shots if he was passing it or getting stripped or getting fouled. Or am I wrong? I know you stats geeks really get off on the numbers but sometimes the eye test can say more than a particular stat.

                        Now if you wanna come back with a stat that showed his touches didn't increase then I'll shut up
                        Perspective is reality.

                        Eye tests differ.

                        My eye test showed during that span it was pretty much status quo as when DD was not.

                        The game log from the season confirms with minutes and shot attempts lacking any sort of consistency.

                        Comment


                        • Snooch wrote: View Post
                          so first iv is bashed about about his defense....and that is completely debunked....


                          and now a 7th highest usage but by far the most dominant offensive player should be passing the ball as opposed to scoring on 60% percent of his touches.....sigh.....
                          but its not completly debunked. *sigh*

                          you only read what you want to read I guess. JV defense is still his weakess. I dont know how your not grasping this smh
                          I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

                          Comment


                          • And explain how a person can pass the ball when you have the ball less than everyone else.

                            You have to compare people on level ground. And minutes is only a part of that ground. If jv touches tue ball 50% less than player b, then player b should have more assists if all things equal.

                            Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk

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                            • yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                              but its not completly debunked. *sigh*

                              you only read what you want to read I guess. JV defense is still his weakess. I dont know how your not grasping this smh
                              I never said his defense doesnt need improved...just gave it context against those who are posting outragously bashing him as a terrible defender and one of the biggest issues for the team.

                              Same as whats going on with only looking at a single stat, as oppoes to looking at other thngs to coplete the picture. The same things that posters complain about when defemding other players...although that is generally always done in other threads

                              You instead have been quoting me recently only to flame/bait/troll, while adding absolutely zero support to anyclaim and just view your own thoughts as absoltlute proof.


                              Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk
                              Last edited by Snooch; Wed Sep 9, 2015, 07:05 AM.

                              Comment


                              • It's confirmed. Jonas got Ebola or swine flu.







                                Doctors doing what they can to save him.

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