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  • Remember all the talk about how JV shouldn't play because he was 2nd year/3rd year and Raps were a playoff team who needed to win?


    New Player Note Mon, Feb 1

    Myles Turner admitted that his confidence is growing now that he's in a starting role.

    Advice: Turner even had a play drawn up for him in Saturday's overtime win over Denver, an indication of how much Frank Vogel trusts the 19-year-old rookie. "To be out there in overtime like that in those clutch situations, it’s good for me to learn," Turner said. "It’s good for my confidence and it’s good for coach’s growing confidence in me." In his first two games as a starter, Turner is averaging 14.0 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.0 assists and 2.5 blocks in 33.5 minutes.

    Yeah, and he is a rookie.

    Comment


    • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
      Remember all the talk about how JV shouldn't play because he was 2nd year/3rd year and Raps were a playoff team who needed to win?





      Yeah, and he is a rookie.
      But look at those stats! If JV could do that, he would've played more
      /pink

      Comment


      • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
        Remember all the talk about how JV shouldn't play because he was 2nd year/3rd year and Raps were a playoff team who needed to win?



        Yeah, and he is a rookie.
        Frank Vogel is a real coach. Dwane Casey is a charlatan who picks favourites.

        Comment


        • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
          Remember all the talk about how JV shouldn't play because he was 2nd year/3rd year and Raps were a playoff team who needed to win?





          Yeah, and he is a rookie.
          Yeah, but can he pound a rock?
          "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
          "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

          Comment


          • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
            Remember all the talk about how JV shouldn't play because he was 2nd year/3rd year and Raps were a playoff team who needed to win?





            Yeah, and he is a rookie.
            This is meaningless without a LOT of context.

            Comment


            • Fully wrote: View Post
              This is meaningless without a LOT of context.
              No, it isn't. The Warriors are playing Ian Clark big minutes, the Spurs are playing Kyle Anderson, Boban and Jonathon Simmons. The Heat have Justice Winslow averaging 27.6 minutes, Josh Richardson averaging 11.9 minutes and Tyler Johnson averaging 24.0 minutes.

              These are all teams hoping for playoff success. Meanwhile, Delon Wright, the 23 year old point guard we drafted because we wanted someone NBA ready, has played 31 minutes, total. Norman Powell has played 87. JV is in his 4th season, has numbers that compare VERY favorably to a young Marc or Pau Gasol, and still can't break 30 minutes a game.

              EDIT: Fixed Ian Clark's team to the Warriors, because the Cavs aren't playing him any minutes.
              Last edited by Barolt; Mon Feb 1st, 2016, 02:48 PM.
              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

              Comment


              • Fully wrote: View Post
                This is meaningless without a LOT of context.
                The context is simply that Casey has no faith in young players being anything but a last resort.
                "Stop eating your sushi."
                "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                - Jack Armstrong

                Comment


                • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                  The context is simply that Casey has no faith in young players being anything but a last resort.
                  That's not true, though. I'd have liked to have seen some young guys get a bit more burn over Casey's tenure, but minutes he's given to rookies include:
                  - Terrence Ross - 17 mpg
                  - Ed Davis - 24 mpg
                  - JV - 24 mpg
                  - Quincy Acy - 12 mpg

                  Some young guys, like Bruno and Bebe, don't get any burn because they're not ready.

                  I would like to see Lowry's minutes paced a bit more, though. I think the problem with Wright and Powell is that if you're playing them to rest Lowry, you're pairing one or two of them up with DD and/or CoJo and suddenly you've got a group of guards with pretty weak perimeter shooting. Last year with Lou and GV, Lowry's mpg were down by 2.

                  Would a Wright/CoJo/Powell/DD perimeter combination (in whatever way) really be able to sustain the offense while Lowry sits? You could run more of it through the bigs - JV or Scola - but they'll have a hard time with spacing if they're grouped with guards weak on the outside shooting.
                  "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                  Comment


                  • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                    The context is simply that Casey has no faith in young players being anything but a last resort.
                    There is that.

                    There is also the fact if you don't give young guys WITH THE TALWNT a chance to play in the crunch, when are they ever going to play in the crunch?

                    Everyone who agreed with Casey said, "but we can't develop a 2nd/3rd year player because we have to win games." Well, the whole point of building a team is to continue to improve. Unless you're planning on tanking or being awful in subsequent seasons, when are they going to play when it matters?

                    I always thought the whole situation was asinine. Even if JV was young and made mistakes 1-2 years ago, he a still your most talented big. It was on Casey to make him fit. We are seeing this in year 4 to some extent but based on Masai's off season comments and Casey's ring waving, this was not a Casey initiative,

                    Comment


                    • S.R. wrote: View Post
                      That's not true, though. I'd have liked to have seen some young guys get a bit more burn over Casey's tenure, but minutes he's given to rookies include:
                      - Terrence Ross - 17 mpg
                      - Ed Davis - 24 mpg
                      - JV - 24 mpg
                      - Quincy Acy - 12 mpg

                      Some young guys, like Bruno and Bebe, don't get any burn because they're not ready.

                      I would like to see Lowry's minutes paced a bit more, though. I think the problem with Wright and Powell is that if you're playing them to rest Lowry, you're pairing one or two of them up with DD and/or CoJo and suddenly you've got a group of guards with pretty weak perimeter shooting. Last year with Lou and GV, Lowry's mpg were down by 2.

                      Would a Wright/CoJo/Powell/DD perimeter combination (in whatever way) really be able to sustain the offense while Lowry sits? You could run more of it through the bigs - JV or Scola - but they'll have a hard time with spacing if they're grouped with guards weak on the outside shooting.
                      Guys who aren't ready aren't ready. I can live with that especially with the dleague team now.

                      Is is specifically to JV though who was ready and was routinely benched in the crunch versus a team/coach like Indiana/Vogel who recognize they aren't winning it all or a true contender this year so let's get the kid mites in the crunch.

                      Comment


                      • S.R. wrote: View Post
                        That's not true, though. I'd have liked to have seen some young guys get a bit more burn over Casey's tenure, but minutes he's given to rookies include:
                        - Terrence Ross - 17 mpg
                        - Ed Davis - 24 mpg
                        - JV - 24 mpg
                        - Quincy Acy - 12 mpg
                        It is true - note that I said 'as a last resort'. Go back over the rosters and you'll find very little in the way of serviceable NBA players who could have played ahead of the rookies mentioned above. But once there are other actual NBA vets to choose from (or, semi-actual, ie Salmons, Chuck Hayes, etc.) Casey starts looking the young players off.
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

                        Comment


                        • Barolt wrote: View Post
                          No, it isn't. The Warriors are playing Ian Clark big minutes, the Spurs are playing Kyle Anderson, Boban and Jonathon Simmons. The Heat have Justice Winslow averaging 27.6 minutes, Josh Richardson averaging 11.9 minutes and Tyler Johnson averaging 24.0 minutes.

                          These are all teams hoping for playoff success. Meanwhile, Delon Wright, the 23 year old point guard we drafted because we wanted someone NBA ready, has played 31 minutes, total. Norman Powell has played 87. JV is in his 4th season, has numbers that compare VERY favorably to a young Marc or Pau Gasol, and still can't break 30 minutes a game.

                          EDIT: Fixed Ian Clark's team to the Warriors, because the Cavs aren't playing him any minutes.
                          You're right. If only JV had gotten the Ian Clark or Boban treatment those first couple of key seasons - who knows what type of player he would have grown into.

                          Is this real life?

                          Comment


                          • Fully wrote: View Post
                            You're right. If only JV had gotten the Ian Clark or Boban treatment those first couple of key seasons - who knows what type of player he would have grown into.

                            Is this real life?
                            not even close to the comparison he's made here. but good try.

                            Comment


                            • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                              It is true - note that I said 'as a last resort'. Go back over the rosters and you'll find very little in the way of serviceable NBA players who could have played ahead of the rookies mentioned above. But once there are other actual NBA vets to choose from (or, semi-actual, ie Salmons, Chuck Hayes, etc.) Casey starts looking the young players off.
                              Playing Salmons so much was dumb, but he wasn't taking minutes from JV or any other rookie. A lot of us would have liked Fields to have played a bit more, even with his broken shots.

                              "As a last resort" is a subjective slope here. The other way to define your comment would be to say that Casey plays rookies if the vets are worse, but he doesn't if the vets are better. He's not exactly unique in that approach.

                              Casey's a bit more on the "prove it to me first, then you get minutes" with young guys he's trying to develop, and a lot of other coaches operate the same way. Some do follow the "learn through PT" approach, but like Vogel (and Casey in the examples I mentioned), those coaches are often coaching thin rosters. Not necessarily bad teams, mind you - some very good teams have to give one or two young guys key minutes because when you're capped out, sometimes you have to fill in the corners with rookie deals. Or you may have one young guy you're grooming, like a Kawhi. Like Jonas, Kawhi's usage was also suppressed his first few seasons. He was given more minutes, but he was also given a limited role initially and brought along pretty gradually over several seasons.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                              Comment


                              • S.R. wrote: View Post
                                Playing Salmons so much was dumb, but he wasn't taking minutes from JV or any other rookie. A lot of us would have liked Fields to have played a bit more, even with his broken shots.
                                He was taking crunch time minutes from Ross.

                                As for:

                                S.R. wrote: View Post
                                The other way to define your comment would be to say that Casey plays rookies if the vets are worse, but he doesn't if the vets are better.
                                IMO it's more like

                                Casey plays rookies if the vets are much, much worse, but he doesn't if the vets are even remotely close to being better.
                                "Stop eating your sushi."
                                "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                                "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                                - Jack Armstrong

                                Comment

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