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  • rocwell wrote: View Post
    Honestly, I'm very surprised that y'all are still fighting about DD, JV.

    I mean, I get it that most of us are kinda 'attached' to certain player.. but what the fu*k guys. This is not about DD or JV. It's about the team. The Toronto Raptors.


    At least Masai is different from us, lol obv. He's all about the winning right now IMO. Although we might find out real Masai's identity in the coming years! I still can't figure him out
    Glad i found this post before typing the exact same thing. Why is it always pitting Raptors player A vs player B? They play on the same team, the one we all love. Same deal back in the day with Bosh/Bargs.

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
    The Double Champ is here!
    Dynasty King: RRNBADLS7
    Raptors: Larry O'Brien

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    • special1 wrote: View Post
      Lol - You take it all so personal. Relax....

      Check the threads and come back to reality. I fed you a bucket of crow over the years. Remember? Trust me on this one.
      i posted stats. you're the one that made it personal. but its really my fault for trying to engage with someone who clearly has no interest in actual discussion. have fun flexing your own e-muscles to yourself.

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      • lewro wrote: View Post
        Yeah, let's see if he's healthy. If not I can use the injury scapegoat, right?

        Last edited by Mess; Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:16 PM.
        Two beer away from being two beers away.

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        • The guy is made of glass.
          "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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          • talking about it in the trade chatter.

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            • MACK11 wrote: View Post
              The guy is made of glass.
              really bad luck is all.

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              • special1 wrote: View Post
                It confirms what many of us have seen this season.

                Our Net rtg is +4.9 with JV on the court and +14.4 with JV on the bench.

                That's significant and shouldn't just be ignored...
                Scraptor wrote: View Post
                Our Net rating is +7.3 with DeMar on the court and +17.3 with DeMar on the bench.

                These numbers are noisy and don't give us conclusions that are as simple as they imply.
                iblastoff wrote: View Post
                lol wait. all of a sudden you care about stats???

                we know that demar is generally a liability on defense but we supposedly need his offense right?

                so whats the on/off for the team with demar?

                raptors when demar is on the court 115.5 ORtg!
                raptors when demar is off the court 121.7 ORtg!

                difference of -6.2.

                not a huge difference you say?

                look at opposing teams ORtg when demar is off/on the court

                opposing teams when demar is on the court 109.3 ORtg
                opposing teams when demar is off the court 102.3 ORtg

                difference of -7.0.

                combined thats a -13.2. thats a pretty huge drop from last year where the combined difference was overall -6.1. so demar has actually gotten worse from last year.

                jonas? his combined difference THIS year is -9.5 which isn't good, but not as bad as -13.2. plus, last year jonas was only -1.5.

                so shouldn't demars numbers also be 'significant and not be ignored' as well?

                special1 wrote: View Post
                Love your effort to switch this to a debate about Demar..... However, Demar isn't going anywhere and this is his team (like it or not). JV's playing style just doesn't fit with this team and his defence is HORRIBLE. So much so that he's not finishing games and has trouble with mediocre and elite teams.

                So we get it.... you never liked Demar and he was the first guy you went to look at his stats to save JV. But it's pointless because this is Kyle and Demar's team. They are the ALL-STARS.... not JV.

                Instead of trying to prove a useless point, let's try to see who actually fits with this team so that we can be better and maybe, just maybe, try to beat the Cavs.
                Just getting caught up on the thread but if I'm reading this correctly; the same stat that was used to paint JV in a negative light paints DD in a worse light but that's written off ... literally ... because it's Demar?

                I don't get the logic there given that the first time the poster used it was in reference to significant and should not be ignored. I'm not a fan of pitting players against each other on the same time ... but this ... this is something else.

                You really can't say something is significant and can't be ignored for one player and then proceed to ignore it for another.
                Last edited by Just Is; Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:36 PM.
                "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                • Let's not get caught up in those on-off splits.

                  DeRozan and JV suffer the same crippling failure - they don't get to play against bench units with Kyle Lowry, all-NBA talent and player that is "over everything," and Patrick Patterson, possibly the most impactful player on the team besides Lowry himself.

                  DeRozan is stuck trying to replicate Lowry's impact with the same unit, which he can't do, because he is a good player but not Kyle Lowry. Valanciunas is stuck dragging a sub-par starting frontcourt partner through the game for the past two seasons, and although he gets to play with Lowry he does not get to play with Patterson nearly enough, so he also looks bad by comparison.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    Let's not get caught up in those on-off splits.

                    DeRozan and JV suffer the same crippling failure - they don't get to play against bench units with Kyle Lowry, all-NBA talent and player that is "over everything," and Patrick Patterson, possibly the most impactful player on the team besides Lowry himself.

                    DeRozan is stuck trying to replicate Lowry's impact with the same unit, which he can't do, because he is a good player but not Kyle Lowry. Valanciunas is stuck dragging a sub-par starting frontcourt partner through the game for the past two seasons, and although he gets to play with Lowry he does not get to play with Patterson nearly enough, so he also looks bad by comparison.
                    Quit trying to bring civility dan, people are arguing here
                    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      Let's not get caught up in those on-off splits.

                      DeRozan and JV suffer the same crippling failure - they don't get to play against bench units with Kyle Lowry, all-NBA talent and player that is "over everything," and Patrick Patterson, possibly the most impactful player on the team besides Lowry himself.

                      DeRozan is stuck trying to replicate Lowry's impact with the same unit, which he can't do, because he is a good player but not Kyle Lowry. Valanciunas is stuck dragging a sub-par starting frontcourt partner through the game for the past two seasons, and although he gets to play with Lowry he does not get to play with Patterson nearly enough, so he also looks bad by comparison.
                      Easy solution to this issue would just be to start Patterson.

                      Personally, the on/off splits isn't an issue for me. It's only a little weird in this one particular situation.
                      "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                      "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                      • Just Is wrote: View Post
                        Easy solution to this issue would just be to start Patterson.

                        Personally, the on/off splits isn't an issue for me. It's only a little weird in this one particular situation.
                        If it took Casey until the Playoffs to realize Patterson should be starting and Scola should be at the end of the bench, Patterson won't be starting this season.

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                        • A.I wrote: View Post
                          If it took Casey until the Playoffs to realize Patterson should be starting and Scola should be at the end of the bench, Patterson won't be starting this season.
                          Sad but true.
                          "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                          "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                          • Just Is wrote: View Post
                            Easy solution to this issue would just be to start Patterson.

                            Personally, the on/off splits isn't an issue for me. It's only a little weird in this one particular situation.
                            You start Patterson and quite possibly cripple the bench units. It's not as simple of a solution as one might think.

                            Imo there is no way that Casey and his staff don't know that the starters with 2Pat have a better netRTG (much better) than with Siakam or Scola last year. There's clearly some reason why they continue to bring him off the bench. Maybe they would prefer he impact the game off the bench with the 2nd unit when the starters come out and then in the 4th quarter play the bulk of it with the starters when the game is on the line? Idk exactly what the line of reasoning is, but I really doubt they're just blatantly ignoring statistical evidence and doing the opposite. There's got to be reasons beyond lineup stats that they don't start him.

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                            • Just Is wrote: View Post
                              Just getting caught up on the thread but if I'm reading this correctly; the same stat that was used to paint JV in a negative light paints DD in a worse light but that's written off ... literally ... because it's Demar?

                              I don't get the logic there given that the first time the poster used it was in reference to significant and should not be ignored. I'm not a fan of pitting players against each other on the same time ... but this ... this is something else.

                              You really can't say something is significant and can't be ignored for one player and then proceed to ignore it for another.
                              We are in the JV Thread guys...... Why when someone comments about JV does this revert back to Demar??? Its a deflection and its weak. Try again.

                              I didn't entertain his attempts to change the subject. I was responding to an article that someone posted about JV's struggles defensively...... like honestly! This JV fan club that you guys have is annoying.

                              Comment


                              • special1 wrote: View Post
                                We are in the JV Thread guys...... Why when someone comments about JV does this revert back to Demar??? Its a deflection and its weak. Try again.

                                I didn't entertain his attempts to change the subject. I was responding to an article that someone posted about JV's struggles defensively...... like honestly! This JV fan club that you guys have is annoying.
                                ... it was literally the exact same stat, man. And the responses pretty much pointed out the issues with using solely that stat on this particular topic. Only one poster stated that it was significant and shouldn't be ignored. THAT'S the reason why Demar was used for a comparison. In your case; you're a huge Demar fan. What better player to use in this case?

                                I wouldn't say that I'm a part of a JV fan club or anything but if you couldn't explain the why behind your reasoning; the deflection wasn't them ... the deflection was on you. You choose a specific stat because you saw that it made JV look bad. You don't have a response for the same state making Demar look worse because you didn't really consider that.

                                It wasn't a deflection or a change of the subject; it was usage of another player to highlight the flaw in using SOLELY that stat.

                                If you don't have a response to that; that's fine. Just make sure the excuse is better than "because Demar" or dismiss it on the basis of a "JV fan club." Because that is what screams deflection.

                                The reason for the difference is that the Lowry + Bench line is vicious mixed with lack of Patterson in the starting line up.
                                Last edited by Just Is; Mon Dec 12, 2016, 06:09 PM.
                                "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                                "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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