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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
    Dan's summary of last years series against the Cavs pretty much sums up the whole concept of small ball to me. Anyone still feel we should be innovative and try to punish small ball teams in the post using JV? Just curious if opinions have changed or if some still feel bully ball can work against an elite small ball team.
    If JV was more dominant and a better passer I would say yes. I think Thompson is too good of a defender. Same thing goes with LBJ.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      If JV was more dominant and a better passer I would say yes. I think Thompson is too good of a defender. Same thing goes with LBJ.

      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
      I just can't see DMC doing any better trying to chase Frye out to the line. I really think we need that upgrade at the 4 to compete against the Cavs

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        Not sure if anyone else recalls how the series against CLE started last spring, but the team bailed on their protect-the-paint conservative scheme and was really aggressive on the perimeter, hedging a lot and leaving the rim less protected. It was a complete disaster and CLE tore us to shreds, to the tune of a 140 ORTG in the first half before it was a complete blowout and scoring 29+ in each of the first three Q's, with only an entire 4th Q of garbage time bringing the full game rating down to 120 (a disastrous rating in and of itself). The Raptors reverted to their more usual conservative scheme for the rest of the series, and although CLE's shooters got hot enough in several games to kill the Raps, they also got cold in a couple and allowed the Raps to steal two games.

        Playing a more aggressive perimeter defence is not some cure against the Cavs - it is imperative you protect the rim against a team like that, as a sliver of daylight means a dunk for LeBron or a layup for Kyrie. Playing with not enough paint protection means automatically getting destroyed. Sacrificing the perimeter to keep them away from the rim means you at least have a shot. Have to find a way to limit the open looks from distance as well, but it's critical you don't leave the paint as a weak spot to do so.
        I remember these games well. I'm trying to forget them, but haven't been able to.

        I guess my point is to try and connect this to JV. Is one method of PNR D more effective against the cavs than another? And does that method increase or decrease the likelihood of JV being a key part of the solution?

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        • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
          I remember these games well. I'm trying to forget them, but haven't been able to.

          I guess my point is to try and connect this to JV. Is one method of PNR D more effective against the cavs than another? And does that method increase or decrease the likelihood of JV being a key part of the solution?
          That's my point though. In the first game of the series against CLE, JV didn't play, and the Raps took that opportunity to play a scheme that denied perimeter shots as much as possible, sacrificing rim protection to do so, while playing Biyombo, a rangy, quick C who can defend out there. And it was a complete disaster. Based on that, I would say the aggressive, trapping PnR D they played is not effective against the Cavs even when executed by a big like Biyombo. I think a variation of the more conservative scheme is necessary against a team like that. And although JV is not an ideal defensive C, he fits better in a conservative scheme than an aggressive one. So to answer your question, I think the necessary method increases JV's chance of being part of the solution. No real proof one way or another, but those are my thoughts.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • This discussion is getting more interesting with DanH points. I wasn't aware we changed schemes. Could that be part of the problem, making a rather huge adjustment like that early in the series? Perhaps we should have stuck to our guns. So you gotta wonder why we are predominantly running that defence now that got shredded by CLE. Is it just to get better at it and be more prepared for CLE? I find it easier to analyze offence with my limited basketball knowledge, but team defence is tough understand. Perhaps, having LBJ just puts CLE in a position to counter any sort of defence.

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              That's my point though. In the first game of the series against CLE, JV didn't play, and the Raps took that opportunity to play a scheme that denied perimeter shots as much as possible, sacrificing rim protection to do so, while playing Biyombo, a rangy, quick C who can defend out there. And it was a complete disaster. Based on that, I would say the aggressive, trapping PnR D they played is not effective against the Cavs even when executed by a big like Biyombo. I think a variation of the more conservative scheme is necessary against a team like that. And although JV is not an ideal defensive C, he fits better in a conservative scheme than an aggressive one. So to answer your question, I think the necessary method increases JV's chance of being part of the solution. No real proof one way or another, but those are my thoughts.
              So, are we hedging alot now with JV? Honestly I havent noticed it alot, it seems he likes to stay back around the paint, but when he is off the floor guys like Patterson and Bebe do hedge more.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                That's my point though. In the first game of the series against CLE, JV didn't play, and the Raps took that opportunity to play a scheme that denied perimeter shots as much as possible, sacrificing rim protection to do so, while playing Biyombo, a rangy, quick C who can defend out there. And it was a complete disaster. Based on that, I would say the aggressive, trapping PnR D they played is not effective against the Cavs even when executed by a big like Biyombo. I think a variation of the more conservative scheme is necessary against a team like that. And although JV is not an ideal defensive C, he fits better in a conservative scheme than an aggressive one. So to answer your question, I think the necessary method increases JV's chance of being part of the solution. No real proof one way or another, but those are my thoughts.
                Yeah, I think that's how you need to beat Cleveland is get them into taking a lot of contested 3s (which seems to be what our defense is intended to do this year). Cleveland is an excellent team and if they make their shots, we aren't going to beat them. But there's more of a chance of them going cold from 3 than there is of them forgetting how to pass to wide-open guys cutting to the hoop. We had a really strong run in the fourth quarter of the second game this year first with Bebe on the court and then JV; without Thompson on the court we cut down on their offensive rebounds, and JV punished Frye a few times in the lane, and we rode that to a 4-point lead with under 3 minutes left. Then we started settling for jump shots, scored 3 points total in our next 6 possessions, while Cleveland hits some 3s, but not at any amazing sort of rate, but enough to give them a two possession lead. That game came down to the fact that they executed their offense down the stretch and got some high-percentage looks. We didn't. But JV being on the court was certainly not the problem.

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                • DanH wrote: View Post
                  That's my point though. In the first game of the series against CLE, JV didn't play, and the Raps took that opportunity to play a scheme that denied perimeter shots as much as possible, sacrificing rim protection to do so, while playing Biyombo, a rangy, quick C who can defend out there. And it was a complete disaster. Based on that, I would say the aggressive, trapping PnR D they played is not effective against the Cavs even when executed by a big like Biyombo. I think a variation of the more conservative scheme is necessary against a team like that. And although JV is not an ideal defensive C, he fits better in a conservative scheme than an aggressive one. So to answer your question, I think the necessary method increases JV's chance of being part of the solution. No real proof one way or another, but those are my thoughts.
                  So the more perimeter oriented defence exposed the paint and the paint oriented defence exposed the perimeter. And if we guard the paint and the Cav's shooting gets cold from outside then we have a chance to win? Not much of a plan, but I guess you have to play percentage game.

                  What was the key to the Spurs beating Miami? Were they just quick enough and disciplined enough to guard the perimeter and recover?

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                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                    So the more perimeter oriented defence exposed the paint and the paint oriented defence exposed the perimeter. And if we guard the paint and the Cav's shooting gets cold from outside then we have a chance to win? Not much of a plan, but I guess you have to play percentage game.

                    What was the key to the Spurs beating Miami? Were they just quick enough and disciplined enough to guard the perimeter and recover?
                    FWIW, Allen/James led Heat that year in 3 pt attempts, 309/306 - 615 total.

                    Last year Smith and Love led Cavs in 3 pt attempts 510/439 - 949 total.
                    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                    • An article from post-game 1 referencing some Casey quotes on the team trying to take away the perimeter and how badly it backfired:

                      http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ames/84528912/
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                        What was the key to the Spurs beating Miami? Were they just quick enough and disciplined enough to guard the perimeter and recover?
                        The Spurs strategy was not to miss.
                        Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                        • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          So the more perimeter oriented defence exposed the paint and the paint oriented defence exposed the perimeter. And if we guard the paint and the Cav's shooting gets cold from outside then we have a chance to win? Not much of a plan, but I guess you have to play percentage game.

                          What was the key to the Spurs beating Miami? Were they just quick enough and disciplined enough to guard the perimeter and recover?
                          They outscored them, mostly. They did suppress the Heat's scoring (a point was made about how they made James a jump shooter, but I don't know if that holds up) by about 7 PPP relative to the regular season, but they eviscerated the Heat's defence, to the tune of a 118 DRTG, 16 points worse than their regular season.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Mess wrote: View Post
                            The Spurs strategy was not to miss.
                            Also if you have guys like Kawhi and Iggy in GSW, you can get away with not having to overhelp on James. We have no defender of that caliber.

                            Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              They outscored them, mostly. They did suppress the Heat's scoring (a point was made about how they made James a jump shooter, but I don't know if that holds up) by about 7 PPP relative to the regular season, but they eviscerated the Heat's defence, to the tune of a 118 DRTG, 16 points worse than their regular season.
                              So Paul George or bust. I like it.

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                              • That Spurs team had the best ball movement ever seen and still hasn't been seen again. They were determined, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili still had a fair bit left in the tank, plus Kawhi, Patty Mills, Danny Green, Boris Diaw, Thiago Splitter, and of course Gregg Popovich. Custom made roster to eviscerate a team of all stars that were feeling a little too good about themselves. It remains the most beautiful basketball I've ever witnessed.
                                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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