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  • I don't see how seating back and protecting the paint with our worse rim protector defending the rim will help us beat the Cavs. Lebron and Kyrie aren't threatened at all when they see JV infront of the rim.

    Also Lowry/Debo aren't the best at keeping people out the paint. They are both at thier best when they scambling all over the place. Trying to get into the passing lanes.

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    @Chr1st1anL

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    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      I don't see how seating back and protecting the paint with our worse rim protector defending the rim will help us beat the Cavs. Lebron and Kyrie aren't threatened at all when they see JV infront of the rim.

      Also Lowry/Debo aren't the best at keeping people out the paint. They are both at thier best when they scambling all over the place. Trying to get into the passing lanes.

      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
      JV really isn't bad when it comes to staying around the paint and contesting shots. He is bad when he hedges on P&Rs and has to run back and defend the paint. Sure Bebe may be better at rim protection because of his long arms, but JV isn't bad at all.

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      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        I don't see how seating back and protecting the paint with our worse rim protector defending the rim will help us beat the Cavs. Lebron and Kyrie aren't threatened at all when they see JV infront of the rim.

        Also Lowry/Debo aren't the best at keeping people out the paint. They are both at thier best when they scambling all over the place. Trying to get into the passing lanes.

        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
        "Scrambling all over the place, getting into passing lanes" is about the worst thing you can do. That might be fun against philly or Minnesota, but cleveland will punk the shit out of you and drop 40 pts in 10 minutes
        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          I don't see how seating back and protecting the paint with our worse rim protector defending the rim will help us beat the Cavs. Lebron and Kyrie aren't threatened at all when they see JV infront of the rim.

          Also Lowry/Debo aren't the best at keeping people out the paint. They are both at thier best when they scambling all over the place. Trying to get into the passing lanes.

          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          The easy joke there is that they're scrambling because they just got blown by ... but no, they're not at their best doing that.

          Additionally, in regards to the bolded, they don't seem to be threatened of ANYONE in front of them.

          KeonClark wrote: View Post
          "Scrambling all over the place, getting into passing lanes" is about the worst thing you can do. That might be fun against philly or Minnesota, but cleveland will punk the shit out of you and drop 40 pts in 10 minutes
          Yeah; anyone remember how great we looked with the scrambling defense?

          Anyone?

          ... scrambling is a bad system against pretty much any team.
          Last edited by Just Is; Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:58 PM.
          "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
          "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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          • Just Is wrote: View Post
            The easy joke there is that they're scrambling because they just got blown by ... but no, they're not at their best doing that.

            Additionally, in regards to the bolded, they don't seem to be threatened of ANYONE in front of them.


            Yeah; anyone remember how great we looked with the scrambling defense?

            Anyone?

            ... scrambling is a bad system against pretty much any team.

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            • rocwell wrote: View Post
              I stand corrected.
              "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
              "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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              • A.I wrote: View Post
                JV really isn't bad when it comes to staying around the paint and contesting shots. He is bad when he hedges on P&Rs and has to run back and defend the paint. Sure Bebe may be better at rim protection because of his long arms, but JV isn't bad at all.
                See I would believe this if JV wasn't allowing over 50+ % while defending the rim.

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                @Chr1st1anL

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                • Just Is wrote: View Post
                  The easy joke there is that they're scrambling because they just got blown by ... but no, they're not at their best doing that.

                  Additionally, in regards to the bolded, they don't seem to be threatened of ANYONE in front of them.


                  Yeah; anyone remember how great we looked with the scrambling defense?

                  Anyone?

                  ... scrambling is a bad system against pretty much any team.
                  Any defensive scheme is going to struggle when you have Debo, Vasquez, Lou Will and JV playing big minutes. Raptor are a lot better equipped to play that style now.

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                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    Any defensive scheme is going to struggle when you have Debo, Vasquez, Lou Will and JV playing big minutes. Raptor are a lot better equipped to play that style now.

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                    No. You need discipline to play against Cleveland. There's nothing they haven't seen. Running around like banshees trying to cause turnovers, they'll just laugh and take open jumpers after swinging the ball. They're ONE OF the top teams ever, they could probably compete with the 90s Bulls and 80s Lakers.
                    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                      No. You need discipline to play against Cleveland. There's nothing they haven't seen. Running around like banshees trying to cause turnovers, they'll just laugh and take open jumpers after swinging the ball. They're ONE OF the top teams ever, they could probably compete with the 90s Bulls and 80s Lakers.
                      Just cause thier scrabbling doesn't mean there is no discipline. You need quickness to beat the Cavs. You have to be able to colapse into the paint to help and still be able to run out and contest the 3. Doesn't matter what scheme JV can't do that consistently enough. Especially when Frye is his match up.

                      It's nice to have defensive schemes and all but, nothing beats just having better defenders out there.

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                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • Wanna point out 2:29. Look at how that pick and roll is being defended. That doesn't look like sagging into the paint to me. You do that crap against Kyrie, I don't care who the defender at the point of attack is you are handing him baskets.
                        Last edited by Lupe; Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:32 PM.

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                        • tDotted wrote: View Post
                          And yeah.. it is very possible. Team needs to rotate after the ICE..
                          We are talking about two different things then. ICE is a term of art. It is used to describe a particular tactic to defend side screen and roll with the purpose of forcing the ballhandler away from the high screen to the baseline where he is surrounded by the guard and the big (floating in the wing area) and has nowhere to go cause the baseline contains his other route. You can't ICE a middle pick and roll because there is no baseline to force the ballhandler toward and there isn't necessarily an obvious direction for the defender to force the ballhandler.

                          The comp to ICE on middle screen and roll would be 'weak' where you are forcing a ballhandler to his weak hand, having the big try and prevent the drive while the on the ball defender recovers. Or if you have a ballhandler who can't shoot and a big who isn't a threat you have the big sag off to stop the drive). Regardless, they are different tactics applied in different scenarios. For example, having your big sag into the paint isn't very effective if you have two good shooter running the pick and roll - you're just going to get killed from the three point line. And going 'weak' doesn't work on a properly executed angle pick and roll because the ballhandler is going to get to his strong hand, so a different coverage would apply.

                          The point being: this isn't as simple or straightforward as either ICEing or not ICEing pick and rolls. It's a specific tactic used as part of your overall scheme, it isn't the scheme itself and it doesn't always make sense and isn't always applicable.

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                          • Let's be clear though friends:
                            There is no perfect blueprint to beat Cleveland. They are an excellent team. The original point was made about JV strengths in the defensive system and whether it's compatible with how we are most likely to play against Cleveland.

                            When I saw JV hedge this year I initially assumed it was because Greer left and Casey reverted back to old ways. But perhaps it's a strategic decision.

                            Anyway--again Cleveland is awesome. I wasn't suggesting PNR coverage alone will make or break the raps vs Cleveland in a 7 game series.

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                            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                              See I would believe this if JV wasn't allowing over 50+ % while defending the rim.

                              Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                              Part of that stat comes from JV hedging and having to run back to contest a shot at the rim. Like I said, he isn't good at that.

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                              • JV has cinder blocks for feet, please trade him.

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