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  • I thought JV looked better in that one - rebounded fairly well and made shots/FTs. I've been getting a little perturbed about his inability to challenge shots in the lane, like the verticality thing has gone out the window and now he's stuck in no man's land with faux attempts to challenge; add not making shots that he usually makes and you've got the recipe for a scapegoat.

    But remember that he's still young and has room to improve on both ends. Big men tend to peak in their late 20s and, just like it did for DeMar, all this experience should pay off in due time.

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    • http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18365463

      Around 1:04 or so (hard to tell on that app).

      "Valanciunas. If he was really going to be the guy they think he's going to be. Would've forced his way to 30 minutes a game by now or 32 or 34... and he hasn't."

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      • Lupe wrote: View Post
        http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18365463

        Around 1:04 or so (hard to tell on that app).

        "Valanciunas. If he was really going to be the guy they think he's going to be. Would've forced his way to 30 minutes a game by now or 32 or 34... and he hasn't."
        Interesting. Is there any evidence for that? Are centres typically capped at the minutes they earn at the age of 24? (Leaving aside the obvious rejoinder that one simply cannot force one's minutes allotment on a Casey team, judging by Pat and Powell).
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Interesting. Is there any evidence for that? Are centres typically capped at the minutes they earn at the age of 24? (Leaving aside the obvious rejoinder that one simply cannot force one's minutes allotment on a Casey team, judging by Pat and Powell).
          How are Pat and Powell good examples of that or even a comparison? 2Pat does play the kind of minutes he'd want at over 28mpg, despite not even starting. Even if he started he'd probably still play about 28mpg anyway, just at different points in the game. Powell doesn't get that PT because he has 2 very good SG/SFs ahead of him in the depth chart (and Lowry/CoJo gets minutes at SG as well - depending on who you think the SG is) and DeMarre ahead of him at the 3 spot. Jonas has no one ahead of him in the depth chart and hasn't since he was a rookie. Was given the starting job even more quickly than DeRozan was.

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          • There are ways for JV to begin to demand himself more minutes. Differentiate yourself and advance more offensively. Add a consistent and deadly mid-range game. Learn to shoot the corner 3. Improve your ball-handling, improve your ability to pass the ball. Get smarter defensively and learn to make up for your lack of athleticism in other ways.

            Look at the diversity in the skillset of someone like Jokic. https://gfycat.com/SardonicGiantDesertpupfish. Can beat his man off the dribble, shoot from mid-range and outside willingly and consistently, elite passing bigman. Get better and you force your team to play you. Denver wanted to split minutes with him and Nurkic and he's forced them to play him the bulk of the center minutes instead by demonstrating just how much better he is.

            This is two years in a row now where JV is consistently losing minutes to low profile bigmen (Biyombo and now Bebe). At some point you've got to look at the player and ask how he can make himself undroppable (to use a soccer term).
            Last edited by Lupe; Tue Jan 3rd, 2017, 02:14 AM.

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            • Lupe wrote: View Post
              There are ways for JV to begin to demand himself more minutes. Differentiate yourself and advance more offensively. Add a consistent and deadly mid-range game. Learn to shoot the corner 3. Improve your ball-handling, improve your ability to pass the ball. Get smarter defensively and learn to make up for your lack of athleticism in other ways.

              Look at the diversity in the skillset of someone like Jokic. https://gfycat.com/SardonicGiantDesertpupfish. Can beat his man off the dribble, shoot from mid-range and outside willingly and consistently, elite passing bigman. Get better and you force your team to play you. Denver wanted to split minutes with him and Nurkic and he's forced them to play him the bulk of the center minutes instead by demonstrating just how much better he is.

              This is two years in a row now where JV is consistently losing minutes to low profile bigmen (Biyombo and now Bebe). At some point you've got to look at the player and ask how he can make himself undroppable (to use a soccer term).
              JV does a have a mid range to be fair, he needs Lowry or DD to get him looks though. Whats the point of improving his ball handling if he is so slow?

              Jokic is a pretty bad comparison, he came into the league with the ability to shoot and he is pretty mobile. They both excel at different things, Jokic can shoot, JV is better at finishing around the rim. Its like comparing Derozan to Klay Thompson.

              JV's problem isn't offensively, he is already effective when he gets the ball, his defense is the issue.

              Honestly I blame the Raptors for what JV is today. He was pretty mobile, tall, and a good finisher around the rim, instead of building on his strengths, the Raptors turned him into Roy Hibbert as the league transitioned from those bulky big men to more mobile, athletic and perimeter-oriented big men.

              Also remember he is only 24, he still has a lot of time to improve and has his best years ahead of him, whether it is with the Raptors or another team.
              Last edited by A.I; Tue Jan 3rd, 2017, 02:53 AM.

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              • A.I wrote: View Post
                JV does a have a mid range to be fair, he needs Lowry or DD to get him looks though. Whats the point of improving his ball handling if he is so slow?

                Jokic is a pretty bad comparison, he came into the league with the ability to shoot and he is pretty mobile. They both excel at different things, Jokic can shoot, JV is better at finishing around the rim.

                JV's problem isn't offensively, he is already effective when he gets the ball, his defense is the issue.

                Honestly I blame the Raptors for what JV is today. He was pretty mobile, tall, and a good finisher around the rim, instead of building on his strengths, the Raptors turned him into Roy Hibbert as the league transitioned from those bulky big men to more mobile, athletic and perimeter-oriented big men.

                Also remember he is only 24, he still has a lot of time to improve and has his best years ahead of him, whether it is with the Raptors or another team.
                JV is not better than Jokic at the rim. Jokic shoots 71.6% from 0-3 feet. Valanciunas is at 56% (a career low) but even in his best years never broke 70% (close in his rookie year at 69.7%).

                I know defense is the main issue. But what I'm saying is that if he was more dynamic offensively he would force the team's hand to play him more, in spite of the mediocre defense. He isn't. It just seems like for every negative with JV people try to deflect the blame elsewhere. I mean DeMar came into the league as someone who was supposed to develop into an elite 2-way player and he never did that on the defensive end, you don't see people pointing that out much when he struggles defensively, because it's irrelevant. Improve yourself in that area or find something else to excel in that forces the team to play you more.

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                • Lupe wrote: View Post
                  There are ways for JV to begin to demand himself more minutes. Differentiate yourself and advance more offensively.
                  One might say that being one of the best post up scorers in the league is differentiated. Most of the examples you provided are really your desire to see him assimilate with the rest of the league.

                  Also, most of the things you mentioned were said of for Demar for years too. Patience double standard?
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • Axel wrote: View Post
                    One might say that being one of the best post up scorers in the league is differentiated. Most of the examples you provided are really your desire to see him assimilate with the rest of the league.

                    Also, most of the things you mentioned were said of for Demar for years too. Patience double standard?
                    No most of the examples I provided are things he could get better at and should get better at to make himself undroppable.

                    And what double standard? DeMar sure as heck was not a player that I would've hesitated to trade for the right return up until he turned his shit around in his 5th season. And again, DeMar is not really normal at all, players do not typically make such big improvements after year 5 unless they were not able to get playing time beforehand (someone like Lowry, Billups, etc).

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                    • Lupe wrote: View Post
                      How are Pat and Powell good examples of that or even a comparison? 2Pat does play the kind of minutes he'd want at over 28mpg, despite not even starting. Even if he started he'd probably still play about 28mpg anyway, just at different points in the game. Powell doesn't get that PT because he has 2 very good SG/SFs ahead of him in the depth chart (and Lowry/CoJo gets minutes at SG as well - depending on who you think the SG is) and DeMarre ahead of him at the 3 spot. Jonas has no one ahead of him in the depth chart and hasn't since he was a rookie. Was given the starting job even more quickly than DeRozan was.
                      If you are going to argue that JV doesn't have competition at the 5 spot, then you should be allowing that Pat should be playing 36 minutes a game with the "competition" he has at his spot. You can joke about BeBe being a borderline player, but he's always put up great numbers when he played, including in the short stint last year when he subbed for Biz during JV's injury. He's always projected as at least a decent backup C.

                      Powell has outplayed both Ross and Carroll on both ends this year. He's definitely earned way more minutes than he's gotten even considering competition for minutes.

                      JV was given the starting job more quickly than DD was? DD, who started the first game of his NBA career, just like JV? Nevermind that Patterson has yet to get the starting job - make up your mind, is starting or minutes the qualifier here? Because JV has consistently had Casey put such players as Aaron Gray ahead of him on the crunch time depth chart, and you can't honestly believe that was because Gray was a better player than even rookie JV.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • A.I wrote: View Post
                        JV's problem isn't offensively, he is already effective when he gets the ball, his defense is the issue.
                        This is where I disagree with you. I think there are two huge issues that JV takes the brunt force for.

                        1) Our guards can't defend if their lives depended on it. Lowry (as much as I love him) takes way too many chances and gets blown by easily and Demar is terrible. This puts added pressure on our bigs.

                        2) The scheme that Casey implements for his bigs doesn't suit JV. Since our guards don't put up enough pressure, we then have to have our bigs hedge, which slower bigs like JV struggle on.

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                        • A.I wrote: View Post
                          Honestly I blame the Raptors for what JV is today. He was pretty mobile, tall, and a good finisher around the rim, instead of building on his strengths, the Raptors turned him into Roy Hibbert as the league transitioned from those bulky big men to more mobile, athletic and perimeter-oriented big men.
                          But you don't blame JV whatsoever? You and I don't know what players personal lives are like, beyond glimpses that are reported.

                          Sullinger is an extreme example. Certainly wasn't the Celtics that turned him into a fat blob by season's end last year. Took Bebe until he got married this past offseason to reportedly give up drinking and partying. MU reportedly had to have a long chat with TRoss about his late nights.

                          As for JV, July 15, 2015
                          Valanciunas doesn’t believe his weight has changed from the 255 pounds he came in at last season, but his face is notably leaner and he seems thicker through the shoulders than he had been.

                          Valanciunas credits a change in diet.

                          “I’m eating healthy now,” he says with a frown. “It doesn’t always taste good but I have to do this.”
                          http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/14...er-this-summer

                          April 15, 2016

                          Quietly, Valanciunas has undergone his own transformation. When he broke his hand back in November, Valanciunas had a lot of time off to think about things, and the Raptors medical staff suggested he cut some things out of his diet, promising results when he returned to the court.

                          Particularly lately, the difference has been noticeable, with Valanciunas moving much quicker and arguably playing the best two-way basketball of his career (the 2.8 blocks per game he has averaged in April are by far the most he has averaged in any month of his career and his minutes are up without any decline in production as well).

                          “I changed my diet. I don’t eat no crap food no more. I’m trying to stay away from all the sweets, all the candies, all the deserts,” Valanciunas told Postmedia Network after the team’s shootaround at Madison Square Garden on Sunday morning.

                          “Sugar, watch what you drink — no juices, no soda at all … I lost the weight and I feel great. When I’m on the court I feel the difference.”

                          Valanciunas said that is especially true when he is running back and forth, changing ends.

                          “You’re less tired, you’re feeling better,” he said.
                          http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/10...-v-feeling-fit
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                          • mjt20mik wrote: View Post
                            This is where I disagree with you. I think there are two huge issues that JV takes the brunt force for.

                            1) Our guards can't defend if their lives depended on it. Lowry (as much as I love him) takes way too many chances and gets blown by easily and Demar is terrible. This puts added pressure on our bigs.

                            2) The scheme that Casey implements for his bigs doesn't suit JV. Since our guards don't put up enough pressure, we then have to have our bigs hedge, which slower bigs like JV struggle on.
                            I do agree with you, the perimeter D makes JV's D look worse than it already is, but JV isn't that great himself to be fair. He is average on defense, but definitely not as bad as people on this forum make him out to be.
                            Last edited by A.I; Tue Jan 3rd, 2017, 12:17 PM.

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                            • Lupe wrote: View Post
                              JV is not better than Jokic at the rim. Jokic shoots 71.6% from 0-3 feet. Valanciunas is at 56% (a career low) but even in his best years never broke 70% (close in his rookie year at 69.7%).

                              I know defense is the main issue. But what I'm saying is that if he was more dynamic offensively he would force the team's hand to play him more, in spite of the mediocre defense. He isn't. It just seems like for every negative with JV people try to deflect the blame elsewhere. I mean DeMar came into the league as someone who was supposed to develop into an elite 2-way player and he never did that on the defensive end, you don't see people pointing that out much when he struggles defensively, because it's irrelevant. Improve yourself in that area or find something else to excel in that forces the team to play you more.
                              Demar used to get a lot of blame for his defense, but a Center's defense is more noticeable, especially when he struggles and when you add in the fact that the Raptors perimeter really isn't good either, it makes JV worse than he already is. Also probably because people gave up on pointing out Demar's bad defense because he is who is he and probably won't get much better.

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                              • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                                But you don't blame JV whatsoever? You and I don't know what players personal lives are like, beyond glimpses that are reported.

                                Sullinger is an extreme example. Certainly wasn't the Celtics that turned him into a fat blob by season's end last year. Took Bebe until he got married this past offseason to reportedly give up drinking and partying. MU reportedly had to have a long chat with TRoss about his late nights.
                                Of course he gets the blame as well, but my point is, if he didn't bulk up and instead put on some muscle while improving on his strengths, RR would be having totally different conversations about JV.

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