Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything Valanciunas

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lupe wrote: View Post
    The reason he doesn't get plays run through him is precisely because he can't do any of those things.

    Which top team is running a significant chunk of their offense through a big that isn't a great passer?
    Portland. They use Plumlee as a passer. There's no way anyone can say this guy had high skill level as a passer (or in any sense) coming into the league. Arguably one of the least skilled rotation bigs in the league.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

    Comment


    • If JV passes, he never gets the ball back. Then he gets shat on for the lack of production... Cant we all just see his super high efficiency and meet it with the appropriately high usage?
      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

      Comment


      • Scraptor wrote: View Post
        While I agree with you in general, I'm not sure I've ever seen Jonas hit a cutter out of the high post in a face-up situation like Jokic did.

        Though that doesn't mean it's not possible, I think it's not something he has a natural facility for. In their last years before coming to the NBA, Jokic had about 3x as many assists as Jonas per 40 minutes per DX. The ability was always there with Jokic.
        We don't really use him in the high post. The closest thing is when he gets it on the wing and it is almost always, if not actually always to create a handoff or pass to a bahandler. We've run very little high-low action where a big or wing cuts to the basket when the other big has the ball further out. We used to see a bit more of it when we had Amir around.

        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

        Comment


        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          Portland. They use Plumlee as a passer. There's no way anyone can say this guy had high skill level as a passer (or in any sense) coming into the league. Arguably one of the least skilled rotation bigs in the league.

          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
          I have watched a lot of Portland games the last season and a half (I still have a soft spot for my old team) and Plumlee is good with the ball. Not in terms of putting the ball on the floor and creating offense but he is a very good passer (he usually hits guys in the right spots and his timing is excellent) and, just as importantly, he knows when a pass isn't there and doesn't force the issue. The Blazers run a lot of stuff through Plumlee to allow the backcourt to work off the ball to get free and it is very effective. I don't know if he's a 'great passer' - he's not Magic Johnson - but he's one of the better passing bigs in the NBA. He's used accordingly.

          Plumlee's problem is that he's a bit of a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. He can't shoot and has limitations defensively, though some of the latter can also be laid at the feet of a porous perimeter defense featuring a backcourt that doesn't play defense all the time (sound familiar?). To call him one of the least skilled rotation bigs in the NBA suggests you haven't watched him play much.

          Comment


          • slaw wrote: View Post
            I have watched a lot of Portland games the last season and a half (I still have a soft spot for my old team) and Plumlee is good with the ball. Not in terms of putting the ball on the floor and creating offense but he is a very good passer (he usually hits guys in the right spots and his timing is excellent) and, just as importantly, he knows when a pass isn't there and doesn't force the issue. The Blazers run a lot of stuff through Plumlee to allow the backcourt to work off the ball to get free and it is very effective. I don't know if he's a 'great passer' - he's not Magic Johnson - but he's one of the better passing bigs in the NBA. He's used accordingly.

            Plumlee's problem is that he's a bit of a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. He can't shoot and has limitations defensively, though some of the latter can also be laid at the feet of a porous perimeter defense featuring a backcourt that doesn't play defense all the time (sound familiar?). To call him one of the least skilled rotation bigs in the NBA suggests you haven't watched him play much.
            Actually i have watched him a ton. Seems you missed the "coming into the league" part. He is not a skilled passer. He doesn't have a great touch and he didn't coming into the league. Career 1.5 apg in college(never over 2), 0.9 through his first two seasons in the NBA.

            He isn't out there making countless passes with a high degree of difficulty. They are running plays where he looks for specific passing lanes...ie scripted passing offence that you can train a big to do. He hits them because they've clearly worked on these plays a lot in practice. It's the part of his game they've had to develop since yes, his skill level is really low. Not a great touch in general so he/his team have focused on making him a passer and shifting some of their offence to fit that in. He has always been fairly smart about it as he knows his limitations and will pass rather than forcing a shot up, but never showed he had passing ability to make you think his assist numbers would ever be where they are now...again, it has been a clear emphasis for him and the team since he got to Portland.

            Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

            Comment


            • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              Actually i have watched him a ton. Seems you missed the "coming into the league" part. He is not a skilled passer. He doesn't have a great touch and he didn't coming into the league. Career 1.5 apg in college(never over 2), 0.9 through his first two seasons in the NBA.

              He isn't out there making countless passes with a high degree of difficulty. They are running plays where he looks for specific passing lanes...ie scripted passing offence that you can train a big to do. He hits them because they've clearly worked on these plays a lot in practice. It's the part of his game they've had to develop since yes, his skill level is really low. Not a great touch in general so he/his team have focused on making him a passer and shifting some of their offence to fit that in. He has always been fairly smart about it as he knows his limitations and will pass rather than forcing a shot up, but never showed he had passing ability to make you think his assist numbers would ever be where they are now...again, it has been a clear emphasis for him and the team since he got to Portland.

              Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
              We'll have to agree to disagree (though I'm not sure we are and I may have misread your initial post). A lot of his assists come off teams' centre of gravity shifting to DL or CM on one side of the floor and the Blazers winning the 4-on-3 game when the ball gets moved (i.e. not a set pass or play). Plumlee is a big part of that 4-3 subgame. He's not KAT or Embiid but he's also more skilled and effective offensively than a lot of other bigs in the NBA. What he was coming into the league I can't comment on (I don't watch college ball) but he's a very effective offensive centre now.

              Comment


              • tDotted wrote: View Post
                JV just had a great passing game against the Knicks and we're still saying he "can't pass". Lol

                If you're not watching him play without bias then there's no point sparking debate for the sake of it.
                I haven't been paying much attention the last couple of pages but I'm glad to see that this didn't go unnoticed. Players moved off the ball and JV made some very nice passes. The one to Carroll in traffic was especially difficult.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                Comment


                • I think we've reached a point where like 90% of the arguments against JV, both on offense and defense, are ultimately coming down to his innate BBIQ, or lack thereof.

                  Comment


                  • slaw wrote: View Post
                    We'll have to agree to disagree (though I'm not sure we are and I may have misread your initial post). A lot of his assists come off teams' centre of gravity shifting to DL or CM on one side of the floor and the Blazers winning the 4-on-3 game when the ball gets moved (i.e. not a set pass or play). Plumlee is a big part of that 4-3 subgame. He's not KAT or Embiid but he's also more skilled and effective offensively than a lot of other bigs in the NBA. What he was coming into the league I can't comment on (I don't watch college ball) but he's a very effective offensive centre now.
                    But it is a set pass or play. A play doesn't have to be "called" for it to be a focus in their sets. He's not really improvising because this shifting in their offence is what they try to accomplish, and using him as a passer is how they have decided to develop him and make him effective in it. He knows where to expect guys to be and thus while he has to make reads, he knows exactly what options to look for.

                    Anyway, the whole point of bringing up Plumlee is that in no way was he a more skilled passer than JV coming into the league. And look at how he's used now.

                    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      I think we've reached a point where like 90% of the arguments against JV, both on offense and defense, are ultimately coming down to his innate BBIQ, or lack thereof.
                      I dont know, the way people talk about him you'd think he was Greg Ostertag with Javale McGee's IQ.

                      Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                      • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        I dont know, the way people talk about him you'd think he was Greg Ostertag with Javale McGee's IQ.

                        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                        Your username is actually the best descriptor ....

                        Comment


                        • Portland is a top team? Comping jv to plumlee is funny bc both fanbases bitch about off vs def at the 5. Many blazers fans I've talked to/read want plumlee gone. Not saying that should be the case with jv, it shouldn't.
                          The bar should be higher than Portland and plumlee imo. I'd like a defensive anchor at the 5, passing is bonus imo. That doesn't mean I think jv is crap and should be dumped. Fwiw I missed the Knicks game.
                          Bebe is a good passer but he's a twig and half a season out of the dleague. I don't expect I will get roasted for criticizing bebe.
                          I have issues with demar but I think he's a lock. Kyle is kloe. Pat is #3 imo. Everyone else is fair game imo (although I have a soft spot for norm and yak). I'd trade Pat but prefer not to.

                          Comment


                          • lewro wrote: View Post
                            Portland is a top team? Comping jv to plumlee is funny bc both fanbases bitch about off vs def at the 5. Many blazers fans I've talked to/read want plumlee gone. Not saying that should be the case with jv, it shouldn't.
                            The bar should be higher than Portland and plumlee imo. I'd like a defensive anchor at the 5, passing is bonus imo. That doesn't mean I think jv is crap and should be dumped. Fwiw I missed the Knicks game.
                            Bebe is a good passer but he's a twig and half a season out of the dleague. I don't expect I will get roasted for criticizing bebe.
                            I have issues with demar but I think he's a lock. Kyle is kloe. Pat is #3 imo. Everyone else is fair game imo (although I have a soft spot for norm and yak). I'd trade Pat but prefer not to.
                            Fine, you want a "top" team comp? Aldridge has never been a very good passer. You feel better now?

                            It was only a comp on passing ability, and Plumlee averages more assists than bigs who'd definitely be considered more skilled passers/players than him, and was not a great passer coming into the league.

                            Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                            • Jv assist ℅ 3.6, Aldridge 10.4, Pau 16.3 (career avg are similar). Spurs run a ball movement system but both guys have similar numbers on other teams. Pau and LMA have similar usage this yr. Pau is also a good defender.
                              Anyway, it's all about kawhi and both those guys could be gone in the short term. I think the OP was that it's a guard/wing oriented league. Even top teams like clips and spurs revolve more around kawhi and Paul.
                              Fwiw we have tried to acquire both pau and LMA and some here have been keen to trade jv to get LMA bc of his fit on offense (passing is not the main reason but it wouldn't hurt imo).
                              "Happy, happy, happy"

                              Comment


                              • lewro wrote: View Post
                                Jv assist ℅ 3.6, Aldridge 10.4, Pau 16.3 (career avg are similar). Spurs run a ball movement system but both guys have similar numbers on other teams. Pau and LMA have similar usage this yr. Pau is also a good defender.
                                Anyway, it's all about kawhi and both those guys could be gone in the short term. I think the OP was that it's a guard/wing oriented league. Even top teams like clips and spurs revolve more around kawhi and Paul.
                                Fwiw we have tried to acquire both pau and LMA and some here have been keen to trade jv to get LMA bc of his fit on offense (passing is not the main reason but it wouldn't hurt imo).
                                "Happy, happy, happy"
                                Those guys also get regular looks and feel involved. Again, not sure here, are you guys wanting jv to pass on his 3 touches a game?
                                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X