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  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The only real area JV struggles from an passing ability perspective to me is kicking it out when he's deep in the post. He doesn't have good instincts there, which to me is at least partly understandable as he had no back to the basket game coming into the league...
    passing out of deep post is not comparable with passing for guards/wings high on perimeter plays. Or Bebe-esque passing from free-throw line. On low-post play defender negates much more vision space, double team defense leaves the only way out - close corner shooter. Basically on deep post play 4 defenders cover everything, unless....
    ...cutters are found. but alas - we don't have any. and it ultimately will go to shit if the rest of the team is standstill watching regardless of passing skill of big man.

    it's not the question of ability, it's the question of practice and expectations - Plumlee example is a very good one. preset situations and off-ball movement makes all the difference in the world.

    Comment


    • This thread has been dead for a week.....so i figured i'd just leave this here and see what happens. It may shed some light on what's been happening for a while now, but even more so recently.....

      Please don't attack or kill the messenger

      This is from the front page on Raptors Republic

      http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2017/...tors-struggle/
      Last edited by special1; Tue Jan 24, 2017, 12:07 PM.

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      • special1 wrote: View Post
        This thread has been dead for a week.....so i figured i'd just leave this here and see what happens. It may shed some light on what's been happening for a while now, but even more so recently.....

        Please don't attack or kill the messenger

        http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2017/...tors-struggle/
        We badly need someone like Biz cuz our guards don't do shit initially.

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        • special1 wrote: View Post
          This thread has been dead for a week.....so i figured i'd just leave this here and see what happens. It may shed some light on what's been happening for a while now, but even more so recently.....

          Please don't attack or kill the messenger

          This is from the front page on Raptors Republic

          http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2017/...tors-struggle/
          Meh, JV has definitely struggled over the past few games, but so has everyone. You could put together an article like that on every player on the team. Heck, you could do an almost identical one for BeBe - he was a disaster at C to close out the last game, making all the same mistakes JV does in that piece. This is not excusing JV's defence of late - it's been bad. But it's not exactly the key to the bad defence - his on-court DRTG is right in line with the team's overall DRTG over the past 3 disastrous games, so they've been no better with him off the floor, and much worse with BeBe out there against PHX.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            Meh, JV has definitely struggled over the past few games, but so has everyone. You could put together an article like that on every player on the team. Heck, you could do an almost identical one for BeBe - he was a disaster at C to close out the last game, making all the same mistakes JV does in that piece. This is not excusing JV's defence of late - it's been bad. But it's not exactly the key to the bad defence - his on-court DRTG is right in line with the team's overall DRTG over the past 3 disastrous games, so they've been no better with him off the floor, and much worse with BeBe out there against PHX.
            What stood out for me was Kyle Lowry's reaction in the clips he showed..... He seemed super frustrated at how easily the opposing guards were scoring at the basket....without any resistance. Its the complete opposite when Kyle and Demar drive, they seem to get hammered consistently. I wonder if this frustration led Kyle to pick up that flagrant 2 against Bledsoe....

            This is where i think they miss Biz the most (not even Greer can be given credit for this). The toughness.....the mentality of "we're going to put you on your ass if you come in here."

            How many times do we see touch fouls called on JV or Bebe.....How many times do you see JV or Bebe give hard fouls.....I'm sure you see the former much more often. Sometimes you gotta make those fouls count....They may think twice about coming inside so often. Even a split second of hesitation may make all the difference.

            Also, i think playing defence this year is harder for the point guards like Cojo/Lowry because teams now know that they can get whatever they want inside. Now they are consistently sending picks to free up their guards....play after play after play.... exploiting our weakness.
            Last edited by special1; Tue Jan 24, 2017, 12:48 PM.

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            • special1 wrote: View Post
              This thread has been dead for a week.....so i figured i'd just leave this here and see what happens. It may shed some light on what's been happening for a while now, but even more so recently.....

              Please don't attack or kill the messenger

              This is from the front page on Raptors Republic

              http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2017/...tors-struggle/
              The article is a little disingenuous in that Eric Bledsoe and Kemba Walker getting some buckets in the 1/5 PnR is not terribly surprising. There are multiple highlights that look more or less exactly like those plays with JV in pretty much every game they play. Bledsoe had 31 against Utah last week, I could cut together a few vids up him scoring in similar fashion against Rudy Gobert in the PnR and paint it as though Rudy is the problem but that doesn't necessarily make it so. Bledsoe was 4-7 from 3 pt range, and Kemba was 6-9 from downtown - the vast majority of those weren't JV's fault.

              Now, JV is not a great defender and does struggle in the PnR, especially the 1/5 PnR as those guys are often too quick for him in space. It is something he needs to improve on and we need to have a better plan for as a team, and he certainly looks bad in those clips in isolation. However, there are team defense issues all over the place in general. To paint the Lowry/JV 1/5 PnR as the central failing of the defense is misleading and inaccurate. It's certainly not helping, that's for sure, but problems abound - Phoenix shooting 41% and Charlotte 48% from 3 point range for example wasn't helpful.

              Comment


              • tsc8 wrote: View Post
                The article is a little disingenuous in that Eric Bledsoe and Kemba Walker getting some buckets in the 1/5 PnR is not terribly surprising. There are multiple highlights that look more or less exactly like those plays with JV in pretty much every game they play. Bledsoe had 31 against Utah last week, I could cut together a few vids up him scoring in similar fashion against Rudy Gobert in the PnR and paint it as though Rudy is the problem but that doesn't necessarily make it so. Bledsoe was 4-7 from 3 pt range, and Kemba was 6-9 from downtown - the vast majority of those weren't JV's fault.

                Now, JV is not a great defender and does struggle in the PnR, especially the 1/5 PnR as those guys are often too quick for him in space. It is something he needs to improve on and we need to have a better plan for as a team, and he certainly looks bad in those clips in isolation. However, there are team defense issues all over the place in general. To paint the Lowry/JV 1/5 PnR as the central failing of the defense is misleading and inaccurate. It's certainly not helping, that's for sure, but problems abound - Phoenix shooting 41% and Charlotte 48% from 3 point range for example wasn't helpful.
                I don't think the point was say that Lowry/JV are the "central failing of the defense"......I think it does show that teams are attacking this weakness moreso than some think.

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                • special1 wrote: View Post
                  I don't think the point was say that Lowry/JV are the "central failing of the defense"......I think it does show that teams are attacking this weakness moreso than some think.
                  I think since the title of the article was that JV's pick and roll defence was at the centre of the Raptors' struggle, that was exactly the point of the article.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • special1 wrote: View Post
                    What stood out for me was Kyle Lowry's reaction in the clips he showed..... He seemed super frustrated at how easily the opposing guards were scoring at the basket....without any resistance. Its the complete opposite when Kyle and Demar drive, they seem to get hammered consistently. I wonder if this frustration led Kyle to pick up that flagrant 2 against Bledsoe....

                    This is where i think they miss Biz the most (not even Greer can be given credit for this). The toughness.....the mentality of "we're going to put you on your ass if you come in here."

                    How many times do we see touch fouls called on JV or Bebe.....How many times do you see JV or Bebe give hard fouls.....I'm sure you see the former much more often. Sometimes you gotta make those fouls count....They may think twice about coming inside so often. Even a split second of hesitation may make all the difference.
                    With the whistle JV gets from refs he cant be careless with fouls.

                    Also this is yet another article trying to criticize JV for something 80-90% of the Cs in the league would be bad at. I honestly don't know what people expect from a C anymore.

                    Sometimes i swear people don't watch other teams bigs well. Almost every big man struggles in space with a guard/wing coming at him. And most teams that utilize a true big and are successful defensively make it a point to try and avoid these situations by trying to force ballhandlers to certain lanes, zoning up to close up driving/passing lanes, having better secondary rotations to help helpers, etc... Our D is just bad and if people want to point a finger they should start with the coaching staff and then with our perimeter guys who regularly put up no fight.

                    The sad truth is that D is less about specific personnel than people like to think. There are gamechangers defensively, but so few of them. Biz was not one of those guys. You need all 5 players on the court committed to it, and a coaching staff that preaches the right principles. I don't know how anyone watching this team all these years can think Casey does the latter, and our players aren't all held accountable in a way to ensure the former. Ideally you want at least one or two guys who can defend their man with minimal help. And unfortunately the closest things we have to guys who require minimal help mostly play less minutes off the bench.

                    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      I think since the title of the article was that JV's pick and roll defence was at the centre of the Raptors' struggle, that was exactly the point of the article.
                      LOL looking at it again.....yea that may actually be the point.

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                      • special1 wrote: View Post
                        I don't think the point was say that Lowry/JV are the "central failing of the defense"......I think it does show that teams are attacking this weakness moreso than some think.
                        The writer does say "the Toronto Raptors have been forced to use the Kyle Lowry-Jonas Valanciunas combo on defence more. It is killing them.....Since Jan. 17, the Lowry-Valanciunas duo is -5.7 per 100 possessions.. The centre of the issue is their pick and roll defence...."

                        He is pretty strongly suggesting that it's a central failing of the defense. You're right, teams do attack it, and Bledsoe and Walker did as well, but Bledsoe and Walker both average over 20 ppg. They are in the 91st and 87th percentile respectively in PnR Ball Handler finishes and are 1st and 6th in the NBA in number of PnR Ball Handler possessions. Those two guys attack everyone all the time in the PnR and are highly successful at it. They got hoops that way for sure - and I'm not trying to completely excuse JV here - but he's far from the only guy to have issues on that play with those two and there were buckets being scored on us from all angles by guys all over the floor in both games. The article paints a bit of a misleading picture is all I'm saying.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          Meh, JV has definitely struggled over the past few games, but so has everyone. You could put together an article like that on every player on the team. Heck, you could do an almost identical one for BeBe - he was a disaster at C to close out the last game, making all the same mistakes JV does in that piece. This is not excusing JV's defence of late - it's been bad. But it's not exactly the key to the bad defence - his on-court DRTG is right in line with the team's overall DRTG over the past 3 disastrous games, so they've been no better with him off the floor, and much worse with BeBe out there against PHX.
                          This is what some people can't seem to grasp. Is JV a good defender in a vacuum? No. But is he actively bleeding points to the opposition every second he's out there? Definitely not. He had the 2nd best DRTG in the PHX game and the best overall net RTG but he still gets pulled because Casey believes he's Al Jefferson out there.

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                          • tDotted wrote: View Post
                            This is what some people can't seem to grasp. Is JV a good defender in a vacuum? No. But is he actively bleeding points to the opposition every second he's out there? Definitely not. He had the 2nd best DRTG in the PHX game and the best overall net RTG but he still gets pulled because Casey believes he's Al Jefferson out there.
                            I actually thought the Phoenix game was one of his better defensive efforts. Not that he didn't get roasted at times, but on the whole he played well defensively. Lifting him in crunch time and going to an all jump shot attack was bizarre, but not surprising of course.

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                            • tsc8 wrote: View Post
                              The writer does say "the Toronto Raptors have been forced to use the Kyle Lowry-Jonas Valanciunas combo on defence more. It is killing them.....Since Jan. 17, the Lowry-Valanciunas duo is -5.7 per 100 possessions.. The centre of the issue is their pick and roll defence...."

                              He is pretty strongly suggesting that it's a central failing of the defense. You're right, teams do attack it, and Bledsoe and Walker did as well, but Bledsoe and Walker both average over 20 ppg. They are in the 91st and 87th percentile respectively in PnR Ball Handler finishes and are 1st and 6th in the NBA in number of PnR Ball Handler possessions. Those two guys attack everyone all the time in the PnR and are highly successful at it. They got hoops that way for sure - and I'm not trying to completely excuse JV here - but he's far from the only guy to have issues on that play with those two and there were buckets being scored on us from all angles by guys all over the floor in both games. The article paints a bit of a misleading picture is all I'm saying.
                              I agree, its not only JV as most other bigs have the same issue.

                              What scares me is that Charlotte/Washington is certainly a matchup we may face in the playoffs.....We must get a better handle on our PnR defence or we're going to be disappointed come playoff time.

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                              • tsc8 wrote: View Post
                                I actually thought the Phoenix game was one of his better defensive efforts. Not that he didn't get roasted at times, but on the whole he played well defensively. Lifting him in crunch time and going to an all jump shot attack was bizarre, but not surprising of course.
                                He did play well that game, and we actually controlled the game better that night with our bigs in together with Bebe and JV. When we conceded the pace we lost the game. We're not good playing small/fast, just more talented than a lot of teams who try and fail to beat us that way.

                                Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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