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  • lewro wrote: View Post
    Drummond is not my first choice but his D stats are better than jv.
    Steals 1.6, blocks 1.2, dbpm 3, drpm 1.65. I suspect rebounding aids the last two stats but I'd also assume that jvs rebounding buoys those numbers for him too.
    Again, not advocating for Drummond but statistically he might improve the D at the 5.
    I've been too busy to watch games recently but based off of what I read, it seems like jv has been hesitant to play a bigger role in the offense while DD is out?
    Personally, I'd like a defensive 5 like DJ and a two way 4 like millsap. Wishful thinking.
    I think I would agree that the defence would improve with Drummond here, but keep in mind all the impact stats that say the defence would improve also say that the offence would get significantly worse, and the offensive impact stats are more reliable than the defensive ones (as is the case with all offence/defence stats).
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • I miss Biyombo.... I understand the perceived value of Jv and his potential, but the raps are horrible at exploiting it. Biyombo is a better fit.
      Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
      Because its 2015

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      • Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
        I miss Biyombo.... I understand the perceived value of Jv and his potential, but the raps are horrible at exploiting it. Biyombo is a better fit.
        Im really not convinced at all on this. Biz also benefitted from our better scheme last year and is a wholly worse/less productive player in just about every sense. If that's a "better fit" we should blow up the team now because lowering talent level with this kind of goal means there are big time failures happening somewhere in the organization (*cough* coaching staff *cough*), the kind that will prevent the team from accomplishing the only goal that matters.

        Btw, Orlando has both Biz and Ibaka and have pretty bad team D. Just throwing that out there.

        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          Im really not convinced at all on this. Biz also benefitted from our better scheme last year and is a wholly worse/less productive player in just about every sense. If that's a "better fit" we should blow up the team now because lowering talent level with this kind of goal means there are big time failures happening somewhere in the organization (*cough* coaching staff *cough*), the kind that will prevent the team from accomplishing the only goal that matters.

          Btw, Orlando has both Biz and Ibaka and have pretty bad team D. Just throwing that out there.

          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
          And Orlando is worse defensively with Biz on the floor than off it.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • I think at this point it's safe to say that it's the defensive scheme and that has made our defense worse. All of our perimeter and interior defenders look worse this year than they did last year.

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            • Offensively, jv is a better player than Drummond but we don't really use jv. Drummond is better at screen assists, put backs/Orebs. Jv has a slight edge in pnr PPP. Jv is much better from range, FTs and post ups but we don't use him there.
              However, we rely on jv on D on pretty much every possession that he's on the floor.
              I think Drummond would be a net positive on this team, with this system/roster but wouldn't be such an improvement to warrant the deal, especially when you consider the $.

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              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                Im really not convinced at all on this. Biz also benefitted from our better scheme last year and is a wholly worse/less productive player in just about every sense. If that's a "better fit" we should blow up the team now because lowering talent level with this kind of goal means there are big time failures happening somewhere in the organization (*cough* coaching staff *cough*), the kind that will prevent the team from accomplishing the only goal that matters.

                Btw, Orlando has both Biz and Ibaka and have pretty bad team D. Just throwing that out there.

                Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                DanH wrote: View Post
                And Orlando is worse defensively with Biz on the floor than off it.
                This is highly interesting to understand. We do know that Frank Vogel is an excellent defensive coach..... 5 straight top 10 defenses with the Pacers. #1 overall twice & #3 once.

                So, what's missing defensively in Orlando that Indy had? Is it Paul George and George Hill? If so, one conclusion you could draw is that solid perimeter defense at the point of attack may be more important than rim protection and recovery after penetration.

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                • lewro wrote: View Post
                  Offensively, jv is a better player than Drummond but we don't really use jv. Drummond is better at screen assists, put backs/Orebs. Jv has a slight edge in pnr PPP. Jv is much better from range, FTs and post ups but we don't use him there.
                  However, we rely on jv on D on pretty much every possession that he's on the floor.
                  I think Drummond would be a net positive on this team, with this system/roster but wouldn't be such an improvement to warrant the deal, especially when you consider the $.
                  Drummond and JV post nearly identical per-36 screen assist numbers.

                  I agree that any improvement would be incremental, with the risk that there might be quite the opposite of improvement depending on the unknown consequences to the offence.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    Im really not convinced at all on this. Biz also benefitted from our better scheme last year and is a wholly worse/less productive player in just about every sense. If that's a "better fit" we should blow up the team now because lowering talent level with this kind of goal means there are big time failures happening somewhere in the organization (*cough* coaching staff *cough*), the kind that will prevent the team from accomplishing the only goal that matters.

                    Btw, Orlando has both Biz and Ibaka and have pretty bad team D. Just throwing that out there.

                    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                    I loved what you touched on about downgrading talent for fit. I can hear or understand an argument that biz is a better fit for this iteration, the current 2017 raptors. But the current 2017 raptors aren't sniffing a title and as it stands have realistically no chance of beating cleveland 4 out of 7. So if the long term goal (as it should always be) is to win a championship, downgrading talent just to suit kyle and demar is not a good idea.

                    Thats not to say I'm against trading jv, but not just for the sake of it, and not for a rim protector that is absolutely useless on offense. Trade jv for a superstar, or all star, quasi star, even just if it's a deal that got us a better overall player in his age range or younger. But in some peoples preference just swapping him out for biz would be a regret long term, if for nothing else than we lost a good trade chip in that search for a star. And jv is still valued, 7 foot 24 year old that averages 12 and 10 very effieciently and just show up to work are still desired, believe it or not
                    Last edited by KeonClark; Fri Jan 27, 2017, 04:58 PM.
                    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      Drummond and JV post nearly identical per-36 screen assist numbers.

                      I agree that any improvement would be incremental, with the risk that there might be quite the opposite of improvement depending on the unknown consequences to the offence.
                      Wouldn't screen assists vary wildly based on your offensive system? I can't check the numbers now but I feel like as a team the raps live off of screen assists.

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                      • ogi wrote: View Post
                        Wouldn't screen assists vary wildly based on your offensive system? I can't check the numbers now but I feel like as a team the raps live off of screen assists.
                        Absolutely there's a tonne of noise in there. But note that a lot of the Raps' successful offensive possessions end in free throws, which don't count towards screen assists.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          Absolutely there's a tonne of noise in there. But note that a lot of the Raps' successful offensive possessions end in free throws, which don't count towards screen assists.
                          Good point

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                          • We need to trade JV while he still has some decent trade value, unfortunately he just doesn't fit this league and I think he could bring in some other player that could be of more benefit to us right now.

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                            • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                              We need to trade JV while he still has some decent trade value, unfortunately he just doesn't fit this league and I think he could bring in some other player that could be of more benefit to us right now.
                              So he doesn't fit in this league but will have significant trade value? Not really seeing the logic there.

                              Frankly, I don't see the logic in him not fitting in this league in the first place, but the combination of opinions makes absolutely no sense.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                So he doesn't fit in this league but will have significant trade value? Not really seeing the logic there.

                                Frankly, I don't see the logic in him not fitting in this league in the first place, but the combination of opinions makes absolutely no sense.
                                !!!

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