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  • golden wrote: View Post
    I could see Dallas being interested in JV. They need an infusion of young talent, period, and Cuban doesn't like to tank or wait too long to contend. And Rick Carlisle's coaching makes it difficult for them to ever finish bottom 5, regardless of who is on the roster.

    If we could squeeze a future 1st rounder out of Dallas + expiring + young player, that would be a decent haul in a depressed market for Cs. I'll get massively flamed, but something like:

    To Mavs: JV
    To Raps: Bogut + Justin Anderson (SF) + Mavs 2018 or 2019 1st round pick

    Bogut gives you high IQ rim protection & passing at C + playoff experience against the Cavs and is expiring. Anderson is a defensive wing prospect who can guard 2-3 positions. The bet here is that the Mavs stay bad and the 1st round pick becomes valuable.
    Other than boogie best JV deal I've seen suggested.

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    • Cuban wants to take salary dumps for picks. He's doing the opposite of their normal m.o.

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      • lewro wrote: View Post
        Cuban wants to take salary dumps for picks. He's doing the opposite of their normal m.o.
        Certainly even if the Mavs were willing to send a pick for JV, no way they leave it unprotected, in which case it is of little value to us.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Certainly even if the Mavs were willing to send a pick for JV, no way they leave it unprotected, in which case it is of little value to us.
          Top 5 protected.... so we'd be hoping for a 5-10 range pick and trust Masai to use it wisely.

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          • Who's playing center for the Raptors next season if JV is traded this season? Is Poeltl ready? And I hope the answer isn't Bebe or Ibaka.

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            • The question almost becomes: would you rather keep pat or jv? Because behind them both are 3 rookies (Im calling bebe a rookie here) that will be sophomores and should be ready for 20 min a night. So i think that's one of the first cut and dry payroll decisions (assuming they extend Ibaka), which big to keep between Pat and jv.
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • lewro wrote: View Post
                Cuban wants to take salary dumps for picks. He's doing the opposite of their normal m.o.
                Their normal M.O. was to bring in old guys way past their prime, or vastly over-paying younger 2nd/3rd tier FAs (Matthews, Parsons, Barnes,...) and then hope that Carlisle could make chicken salad out of that.

                But JV is young and still reaching his prime and on a great contract - they normally don't have those type of players on the roster, which is why they would want picks in the first place. Cuban is now planning for Dirk's retirement, but they also have to get young players to rebuild around Harrison Barnes to help with scoring. He'd be a pretty good get for Dallas as a quick infusion of young talent. If they really want a pick, we could swap or give them a 2nd rounder. Justin Anderson is intriguing as a Jae Crowder-like defensive wing, with elite physical tools.

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                • DanH wrote: View Post
                  Agreed. The market is ice cold on offensive big men and there is no other viable full time C on the roster. If you aren't going to get a good return on JV (and by all accounts you won't), better to keep him and pay whatever price it takes to shed guys like CoJo and Carroll, who unlike JV, have not really contributed much to the team's success this year, and who play in the same positions (PG, wing) as the all star minutes eaters on the team.
                  DeMar has played 27% of his mins at SF and 23℅ for norm. Carroll is the minute eater there at 71℅. His 29℅ at pf has been helpful with Pat out and maybe he's not back next yr. JV can only play the 5
                  Our depth is much better at 5. That's why yak closed last game and looked great. We have 4-5 guys that can play 5 and cumulatively they offer way more skills than JV.
                  Market is still warmer on JV than it is on DMC. That's why we see rumours of JV trades and nothing on Carroll dumps.
                  First they have to play with ibaka before we make up our minds, otherwise, it's just bias opinion. Then weigh the market, roster and contribution.
                  We know something has to give but we don't know what yet. If I had to pick right now I would want to save Pat but it does depend on the return for JV and what we'd have to send out with DMC. Atm, I don't want to trade yak with Dmc to save JV. I don't think siakam is enough to move DMC right now.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    Their normal M.O. was to bring in old guys way past their prime, or vastly over-paying younger 2nd/3rd tier FAs (Matthews, Parsons, Barnes,...) and then hope that Carlisle could make chicken salad out of that.

                    But JV is young and still reaching his prime and on a great contract - they normally don't have those type of players on the roster, which is why they would want picks in the first place. Cuban is now planning for Dirk's retirement, but they also have to get young players to rebuild around Harrison Barnes to help with scoring. He'd be a pretty good get for Dallas as a quick infusion of young talent. If they really want a pick, we could swap or give them a 2nd rounder. Justin Anderson is intriguing as a Jae Crowder-like defensive wing, with elite physical tools.
                    My reading of the comment was more like they'd take a Carroll-type if we give them picks/prospects

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                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      Top 5 protected.... so we'd be hoping for a 5-10 range pick and trust Masai to use it wisely.
                      Ha - Mavs traded your exact package for Noel. Except as expected the pick was heavily protected - top 18.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        Top 5 protected.... so we'd be hoping for a 5-10 range pick and trust Masai to use it wisely.
                        I think they want the pick. If they send it, I'd expect 10-14 declining. Try pitching this on mavsmoneyball. I think they will throw rocks at you.
                        IIRC its two 1sts plus anderson? Above market imo. IF they like jv I could see one 1st, lottery protected for 3 yrs (or convey 2nds) + Bogut+ Anderson. That's fair value imo but I don't think that is their direction.
                        I'm not a Mavs fan tho and I don't follow them.
                        Don't mean to burst your bubble. I've discussed here in the past as well.

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                        • lewro wrote: View Post
                          I think they want the pick. If they send it, I'd expect 10-14 declining. Try pitching this on mavsmoneyball. I think they will throw rocks at you.
                          IIRC its two 1sts plus anderson? Above market imo. IF they like jv I could see one 1st, lottery protected for 3 yrs (or convey 2nds) + Bogut+ Anderson. That's fair value imo but I don't think that is their direction.
                          I'm not a Mavs fan tho and I don't follow them.
                          Don't mean to burst your bubble. I've discussed here in the past as well.
                          Catch up lewro! Too late for a Mavs trade.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Lol, im slow typing on my phone!

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Ibaka has seen his rim protection drop off in the last few years - mostly because he's been asked to defend on the perimeter more. Which makes sense, the way the game is evolving, most PF's have some stretch in their game. But that doesn't mean he's been a less effective defender.

                              I'm not sure what Lowe is talking about with that comparison. Of all the players Ibaka was paired with in ORL, his on-court DRTG was second-best with Vucevic, about 105. While with Biyombo, presumably a better defensive option (a big who can guard on the perimeter a bit, allowing Ibaka to take some rim protection duties), he had his 2nd worst on-court DRTG, about 112. That's a radical difference, and paints basically the opposite picture of Lowe's sentiments.

                              I suspect he'll work fantastically with the Raptors. One of the things Patterson is credited with most is communication defensively (also something Biyombo was credited with last year) and Ibaka is a vocal defender who should help corral the starting unit defence even if he's operating from a secondary help position. He's also developed into a smart rotational defender (if not always smart when guarding man to man) rather than a pure shot blocker - much like Patterson, who has been the key to the Raptors' best defensive lineups this season.

                              Try to remember, that starting lineup is weak because of basically one player. The upgrade from Siakam to Ibaka is unfathomable. Putting BeBe out there (a player who presumably has his greatest value as a shot blocker and is dragged away from the rim by having to guard on the perimeter in the starting unit, exactly the concern with Ibaka) gives that lineup an incredibly good defensive rating (98.9, by far the best of any lineup on the team with over 50 minutes played this year, in 108 minutes). Not sure why we'd expect Ibaka, who is more mobile and more experienced than BeBe, and a 3 time all NBA defender, to have little impact when replacing a rookie PF who doesn't know where to be on roughly every single play.

                              Long story short, besides getting a star like Millsap, Ibaka might be the theoretical best fit beside JV in the entire league.
                              Very good points. I thought Lowe did his research before he said what he said clearly he didn't lol. I always thought it would work out but Lowe's statement got me a little worried. Excited for Friday! Hopefully we are all right about the fur
                              I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                I actually wrote a whole piece outlining my thoughts on Ibaka fitting here. I don't like to spam my stuff, but it seems very much on topic in this thread....

                                http://www.raptorshq.com/2017/2/21/1...d-numbers-game
                                It's not spam when it's a valuable addition to the conversation. Spam is stuff you DON'T want. Can't say that about your articles Dan.

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