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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    Here's the thing. If you are re-signing Ibaka, you are doing so to win, now. Moving JV and relying on BeBe/Poeltl, or forcing Ibaka to play out of position for basically all of his minutes, will hurt your chances of winning, substantially. It doesn't make any sense to move JV unless you are getting a quality C back - so, maybe you think Drummond fits better stylistically (I don't), and maybe you have a chance at Cousins, sure, but downgrading significantly at C is unlikely - but it's almost a certain outcome if you trade JV, as the return would more likely be a wing player or guard or significant downgrade in talent (as JV's play style is not en vogue right now, his trade value is certainly less than his value on the court).
    I don't really see this as a debate of JV's talent the way you do. In a non salary cap world then you just keep him, along with Ibaka, 2Pat, Lowry, etc. because why would you give away good players unless you're getting a better one back. I just have a feeling that there will be some collateral damage from the current roster in order to resign Ibaka & Lowry to huge deals and JV seems like the most obvious choice for the reasons I originally stated.

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    • Fully wrote: View Post
      I don't really see this as a debate of JV's talent the way you do. In a non salary cap world then you just keep him, along with Ibaka, 2Pat, Lowry, etc. because why would you give away good players unless you're getting a better one back. I just have a feeling that there will be some collateral damage from the current roster in order to resign Ibaka & Lowry to huge deals and JV seems like the most obvious choice for the reasons I originally stated.
      I can't agree with this more.

      But obviously something is going to have to give.

      It is going to be difficult to see MLSE paying JV the equivalent of $34m, $27m to Joseph, and $95m to Carrol because that is what being $38m over the cap will cost (~$156m) plus the other $122m.

      Anyone see MLSE paying $278m AT MINIMUM to keep this squad together?

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      • Personally I'd rather have JV on the roster over 2Pat, Carroll or CoJo. So if a decision comes down to which players to cut to save on tax $$$.. I'm looking at JV last. I'd even put DD on the list over JV. We know Powell can play his position just fine and DD makes the most on this team (I do suspect Lowry will take that mantle though).

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        • Yep. Caroll and CoJo are the first players to dump if we're trying to cut salary.

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          • Odin wrote: View Post
            I can't agree with this more.

            But obviously something is going to have to give.

            It is going to be difficult to see MLSE paying JV the equivalent of $34m, $27m to Joseph, and $95m to Carrol because that is what being $38m over the cap will cost (~$156m) plus the other $122m.

            Anyone see MLSE paying $278m AT MINIMUM to keep this squad together?
            If MLSE keeps raking in that playoff dough I can see them not having too many qualms about it. Doesn't mean they'll do it for multiple seasons but don't necessarily need to trim the excess this summer.

            Plus more winning means more justification to gouge, er I mean, raise, ticket prices.
            Two beer away from being two beers away.

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            • tDotted wrote: View Post
              Yep. Caroll and CoJo are the first players to dump if we're trying to cut salary.
              Yeah, of course you start with the least valuable pieces and try to work your way backwards when it comes to this kind of thing but keep in mind a) Joseph makes $7million next year so trading him in isolation probably isn't enough to soften the blow and b) Carroll's trade value would be much, much lower than Valanciunas. I'd love to be wrong but I really don't see a trade market for Carroll without adding in assets to entice someone to take him.

              Once again, this isn't meant to be an indictment of JV. In an ironic way it's JV's combination of youth/talent/trade value that may cause him to be the odd man out... and because he doesn't seem like a crucial piece to this team's current construction. It's certainly not because I think that DC or Cujo are better players.
              Last edited by Fully; Fri Feb 24th, 2017, 09:05 PM.

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              • Yup. JV's as good as gone next season. With Ibaka here now, he's barely going to see more than 20 mins/game. Bye JV, it was nice knowing ya.
                "Stay steamy"

                - Kobe

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                • hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                  Yup. JV's as good as gone next season. With Ibaka here now, he's barely going to see more than 20 mins/game. Bye JV, it was nice knowing ya.
                  unless Ibaka signs elsewhere

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                  • hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                    Yup. JV's as good as gone next season. With Ibaka here now, he's barely going to see more than 20 mins/game. Bye JV, it was nice knowing ya.
                    eh, i don't think so actually.

                    first boston has no bigs.

                    second Bebe has no business playing and one would hope Casey will realize that soon. Give JV all 11 of bebe's minutes tonight and we win handily, and youd have used him for 28 minutes.

                    They'll need him.

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                    • KHD wrote: View Post
                      eh, i don't think so actually.

                      first boston has no bigs.

                      second Bebe has no business playing and one would hope Casey will realize that soon. Give JV all 11 of bebe's minutes tonight and we win handily, and youd have used him for 28 minutes.

                      They'll need him.
                      Being better than Bebe is a very small hurdle to jump in order to be considered indispensable. The team would have definitely been better off if JV ate Bebe's 11 minutes but they were also better without JV on the floor at all.

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                      • Fully wrote: View Post
                        Being better than Bebe is a very small hurdle to jump in order to be considered indispensable. The team would have definitely been better off if JV ate Bebe's 11 minutes but they were also better without JV on the floor at all.
                        ok, then who do you want playing 28 minutes a night at the 5? Banking on Jakob? really hope you're not wanting us to roll with Bebe.

                        "better than bebe" isn't the hurdle. bebe was a huge negative. JV was contributing positively. And you're only going to be able to get away with Ibaka at the 5 for so long and probably can't do it against every team.

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                        • Doesn't really matter.

                          His cap number makes the difference.

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                          • Bebe should not be playing anymore. JV, Ibaka and 2Pat are all we need with Tucker and Carroll for going smaller
                            The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                            • KHD wrote: View Post
                              ok, then who do you want playing 28 minutes a night at the 5? Banking on Jakob? really hope you're not wanting us to roll with Bebe.

                              "better than bebe" isn't the hurdle. bebe was a huge negative. JV was contributing positively. And you're only going to be able to get away with Ibaka at the 5 for so long and probably can't do it against every team.
                              I really think you're overreacting. Bebe has been our backup centre for the entire year essentially, contributing positively in a decent amount of games. He got rolled out tonight as the backup centre, relieving JV, but Bebe absolutely sucked... so he only played 11 minutes. You make it seem like Casey kept him out there for the entire night while he was getting roasted. 11 minutes is really not very many - in fact it's 10 less than he's played this year on average. Casey tried to buy a few minutes here and there with him on the court and it didn't work... so he would promptly get lifted.
                              Last edited by Fully; Fri Feb 24th, 2017, 11:21 PM.

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                              • Fully wrote: View Post
                                I really think you're overreacting. Bebe has been our backup centre for the entire year essentially, contributing positively in a decent amount of games. He started tonight as the backup centre, relieving JV, but Bebe absolutely sucked... so he only played 11 minutes. You make it seem like Casey kept him out there for the entire night while he was getting roasted. 11 minutes is really not very many - in fact it's 10 less than he's played this year on average. Casey tried to buy a few minutes here and there with him on the court and it didn't work... so he would promptly get lifted.
                                And it should continue like that. JV takes Bebe's minutes and Ibaka gets some minutes at C. Bebe is a nice energy big at times, but thats about it.

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