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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    What a joke. Marciulionis would fit in just fine on this forum. It's never JV's fault.

    Some harsh words on Kyle Lowry from NBA Hall of Famer Sarunas Marciulionis who defends Jonas Valanciunas https://t.co/4XOU320QXE

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Yeah. Sar would fit perfectly on this forum. Cuz you know, he never watched our games. Just like everyone else on this forum. Yup.

    Obviously this dude never watched any of our games.
    Last edited by rocwell; Fri Jun 2nd, 2017, 10:26 PM.

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    • Everything Valanciunas

      rocwell wrote: View Post
      Yeah. Sar would fit perfectly on this forum. Cuz you know, he never watched our games. Just like everyone else on this forum. Yup.

      Obviously this dude never watched any of our games.
      To be fair, he does echo many fans with regards to the issues with passing JV the ball. Misused is another word that comes up a lot around here and that may also be true.

      How do you know that he NEVER watched our games?

      Are you just making shit up or am I missing your sarcasm?

      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      • special1 wrote: View Post
        To be fair, he does echo many fans with regards to the issues with passing JV the ball. Misused is another word that comes up a lot around here and that may also be true.

        How do you know that he NEVER watched our games?

        Are you just making shit up or am I missing your sarcasm?

        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Of course he never watched our games. Kyle is by far our best passer and that dude claims Kyle doesn't know how to spell p-a-s-s. Real Raps fans know that JV is a different player w/ Kyle on the floor. Shit usually hits the fan when JV is playing w/o Kyle.

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          What a joke. Marciulionis would fit in just fine on this forum. It's never JV's fault.

          Some harsh words on Kyle Lowry from NBA Hall of Famer Sarunas Marciulionis who defends Jonas Valanciunas https://t.co/4XOU320QXE

          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          What Marciulionis (aka. inventor of the Euro-Step) said....

          "They don't understand what it means to pass the ball in Toronto."

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          • Kyle is indeed our best passer - but he's not really a great passer by any measure. And his passing to the roll man, while again among the best on the team, is not great. He certainly looks pretty good when compared beside DeMar, but the criticism of him (and the system in general) with regards to passing is perfectly valid. A little excess hyperbole with the spelling comment but such is life.

            Lowry is fantastic, but I certainly wouldn't have listed playmaking as among his greatest strengths - he's a scoring guard and a smart defender and only a decent passer. I think anyone watching the team that's not familiar with it could also pretty easily attribute the system flaws to Lowry, with him being the lead guard.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              Kyle is indeed our best passer - but he's not really a great passer by any measure. And his passing to the roll man, while again among the best on the team, is not great. He certainly looks pretty good when compared beside DeMar, but the criticism of him (and the system in general) with regards to passing is perfectly valid. A little excess hyperbole with the spelling comment but such is life.

              Lowry is fantastic, but I certainly wouldn't have listed playmaking as among his greatest strengths - he's a scoring guard and a smart defender and only a decent passer. I think anyone watching the team that's not familiar with it could also pretty easily attribute the system flaws to Lowry, with him being the lead guard.
              Re: System flaws vis-a-vis passing....

              http://disq.us/p/1j6siqd

              Amir Johnson (last 2 year with the Raps) -
              2013-14: Pass percentage 63.2%, Assist percentage: 5.9%
              2014-15: Pass percentage 63%, Assist percentage: 5.8%

              Amir Johnson (last 2 years with the Celtics) -
              2015-16: Pass percentage 81.7%, Assist percentage: 14.3%
              2016-17: Pass percentage 83.8%, Assist percentage: 12.8%

              He didn't randomly develop the ability to be a play maker from the high post. He was just on a team that allowed him to be more of a play maker rather than pass back to a guard up top for a PNR set. Maybe playing in the Celtics system will give him more confidence to make more plays than his previous time with the Raps, but if there isn't a change in the way the coaching staff looks at the players, then expect him to go back to cap below 7% again from there and then most will complain that this team doesn't have any play makers again.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                Kyle is indeed our best passer - but he's not really a great passer by any measure. And his passing to the roll man, while again among the best on the team, is not great. He certainly looks pretty good when compared beside DeMar, but the criticism of him (and the system in general) with regards to passing is perfectly valid. A little excess hyperbole with the spelling comment but such is life.

                Lowry is fantastic, but I certainly wouldn't have listed playmaking as among his greatest strengths - he's a scoring guard and a smart defender and only a decent passer. I think anyone watching the team that's not familiar with it could also pretty easily attribute the system flaws to Lowry, with him being the lead guard.
                I'm not disagreeing with his assessment of Lowry. He is not a pass first PG it's just not his game. Been saying that. Caaey wanted Lowry to play pass first game but, Lowry wanted no parts in that. Blaming Lowry for JV's failures is not fair though. The offence isn't even the problem with JV it's the other side. I'm just tired of people making excuses for JV.

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                @Chr1st1anL

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                • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  I'm not disagreeing with his assessment of Lowry. He is not a pass first PG it's just not his game. Been saying that. Caaey wanted Lowry to play pass first game but, Lowry wanted no parts in that. Blaming Lowry for JV's failures is not fair though. The offence isn't even the problem with JV it's the other side. I'm just tired of people making excuses for JV.

                  Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                  I think everyone's tired of you constantly singling JV out as the biggest problem with the team while heaping praise on the architect of our garbage systems.
                  It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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                  • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                    I think everyone's tired of you constantly singling JV out as the biggest problem with the team while heaping praise on the architect of our garbage systems.
                    Well the architect of that system will be back and JV probably wont. So what does that tell you? I don't think JV is the only problem with the team but, I think this team can take another step on D if he is not on this team anymore.

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                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      Well the architect of that system will be back and JV probably wont. So what does that tell you? I don't think JV is the only problem with the team but, I think this team can take another step on D if he is not on this team anymore.

                      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                      Well the system was criticized heavily by literally everyone who wasn't a Casey fanboy and has watched us play, including the GM who inexplicably is keeping Casey on despite basically saying the biggest problem with our team is the style of play and culture. Meanwhile there have been no real rumours even about JV one way or the other.

                      And JV has never been the problem on D. Even before the trades the D had been improving. If you want this team to improve defensively, it needs to a) not play Carroll and b) actually get some kind of defensive effort from Demar and Lowry. *Oh and not try to play small/fast because we don't have the pieces for that on either end.

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                      Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Jun 3rd, 2017, 11:54 AM.

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                      • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        Well the system was criticized heavily by literally everyone who wasn't a Casey fanboy and has watched us play, including the GM who inexplicably is keeping Casey on despite basically saying the biggest problem with our team is the style of play and culture. Meanwhile there have been no real rumours even about JV one way or the other.

                        And JV has never been the problem on D. Even before the trades the D had been improving. If you want this team to improve defensively, it needs to a) not play Carroll and b) actually get some kind of defensive effort from Demar and Lowry. *Oh and not try to play small/fast because we don't have the pieces for that on either end.

                        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                        How can you say that when our D was so much better with Ibaka at C. With Lowry/Deebo on the floor. Raps will bring back Lowry/Ibaka/PJ. Ibaka said he wants to play center. Raps will need to clear cap space. JV/Cojo/DC are all on borrowed time.

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                        @Chr1st1anL

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          How can you say that when our D was so much better with Ibaka at C. With Lowry/Deebo on the floor. Raps will bring back Lowry/Ibaka/PJ. Ibaka said he wants to play center. Raps will need to clear cap space. JV/Cojo/DC are all on borrowed time.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          It wasn't always better with Ibaka at C. Sometimes it was at its best with both him and JV on the court completely shutting down the paint and controlling the glass. We also are often playing into the other team's hands when we put Ibaka at C. You can beat worse teams that way, but we aren't beating any contenders playing like that, which I thought was plainly obvious in these last playoffs. We are not a good small ball team, and it has less to do with our bigs than it does our perimeter guys, where we don't get consistent shooting or playmaking, and we get lazy/bad D from some guys.

                          *I mean, our D was always better with Demar on the bench, and he eats up the most salary on the team. It was also much better with Lowry out, because we actually were forced to play slow and thus got exposed a lot less in transition or "scramble" situations because we actually got to get set in our halfcourt D. Maybe we should trade Demar and let Lowry walk? We'd take a much bigger step defensively than if we just traded JV for capspace. 😜

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                          Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Jun 3rd, 2017, 12:47 PM.

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                          • If it's just about our system/roster than we should be able to trade JV to another team, wherein he excels, and that team is willing to pay a decent return for him.
                            Seems like the only team I've seen mentioned here is the Spurs; JV for the 29th, is that the market?

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                            • The problem is demar and Lowry don't know how to play with a big man. I bet they think all big men are suppose to do is get the rebound when they miss

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                              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                Well the architect of that system will be back and JV probably wont. So what does that tell you? I don't think JV is the only problem with the team but, I think this team can take another step on D if he is not on this team anymore.

                                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                                Not sure how safe it is to say JV wont be back, I mean, he does still have a contract. idk why its always extremes on this board. Perhaps the team, isn't suited well to give JV the best chance at individual success, and he has issues that hurt the team on defense sometimes? It doesn't have to be one or the other.

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