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  • Still think he needs to come off the bench. That's the best move for the team and him to perform best as a player.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Like, that theory is wonderful and all, but we've seen it play out already with a pretty solid sample (last year, about 350 and 700 minutes playing without DD and KL respectively). When JV is on the court with DD (regardless of Lowry) he has a lower usage rate. He has a higher one (still capped at 23%) when DD is off the court.

      The opposite is true for Lowry. JV actually has a higher usage rate with him than without him. He also has a higher usage when playing with both Lowry and DD than he does when just playing with DD.

      So, running JV out with the DD bench unit does not help with this. At all.

      Which is why I've been saying he should start each Q, so he gets time in the starting lineup to absorb some early tough minutes away from Ibaka-at-C, or Poeltl, and also gets to play away from DD in those KL-centric bench units.

      But of course, the biggest issue is the strategic goal of PnR's right now. They are intended to get the guards free and passing is an afterthought. Changing that thinking would help. Of course, they won't do that, hence the lineup suggestion.
      The problem with our pnr is that even if kyle or Demar we're trying to hit the roll man, they are both terrible passers, especially to their big guys. Kyle especially. This is just the eye test but it seems that a good percentage of the time kyle attempts to pass to his bigs whether on the roll in pnr or they have good post position, it results in a turnover. Those two really need to work on their passing.

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      • Maury wrote: View Post
        The problem with our pnr is that even if kyle or Demar we're trying to hit the roll man, they are both terrible passers, especially to their big guys. Kyle especially. This is just the eye test but it seems that a good percentage of the time kyle attempts to pass to his bigs whether on the roll in pnr or they have good post position, it results in a turnover. Those two really need to work on their passing.
        So then wouldn't playing JV more with Wright result in more PNR touches for him?

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        • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
          So then wouldn't playing JV more with Wright result in more PNR touches for him?
          Definitely, in the Lowry version of the bench unit. When DeMar is out there he tends to operate as the PG.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            Still think he needs to come off the bench. That's the best move for the team and him to perform best as a player.
            Yeah, we get that. What I'm wondering is why? If it's to get him more touches and use him more, your suggestion of using him only with bench units makes little sense given what I outlined above, especially compared to my alternative middle ground suggestion of him starting every Q. And that leaves aside the risks of going with a small starting unit (that includes a guy who proved pretty emphatically he wasn't ready to start last year).
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • I think it's time we do something radical and start our 5 best players.

              To me, that's Lowry, Derozan, Powell, Ibaka, and JV.

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              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                I think it's time we do something radical and start our 5 best players.

                To me, that's Lowry, Derozan, Powell, Ibaka, and JV.
                Crazy talk! Begone with you.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • People keep on complaining about JV's poor passing but how is he supposed to develop that with limited touches. I don't know about you, but if I'm playing with to ball dominant guards that will throw up almost anything, as soon as I get the ball I'm going to look for mine.

                  This guys runs up and down the court, busting his balls on the boards and fighting in the trenches. He gets ripped on for poor defence as he watches matador defence from the perimeter guys, that leaves him hung out to dry, and he's the whipping boy.

                  JV is a good player and deserves a chance to develop, and be a focal point. We don't get to see what happens behind the scenes, and maybe I'm missising something, but what I'm seeing on the court is a guy playing his heart out and not getting credit.

                  I'm going forward hoping we keep JV and he turns the corner. If Masai wanted to buck the trend but still have a change in style of play, I think utililizing JV correctly would be a good start.

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                  • saints91 wrote: View Post
                    People keep on complaining about JV's poor passing but how is he supposed to develop that with limited touches. I don't know about you, but if I'm playing with to ball dominant guards that will throw up almost anything, as soon as I get the ball I'm going to look for mine.

                    This guys runs up and down the court, busting his balls on the boards and fighting in the trenches. He gets ripped on for poor defence as he watches matador defence from the perimeter guys, that leaves him hung out to dry, and he's the whipping boy.

                    JV is a good player and deserves a chance to develop, and be a focal point. We don't get to see what happens behind the scenes, and maybe I'm missising something, but what I'm seeing on the court is a guy playing his heart out and not getting credit.

                    I'm going forward hoping we keep JV and he turns the corner. If Masai wanted to buck the trend but still have a change in style of play, I think utililizing JV correctly would be a good start.
                    "Masai clearly disagrees with you."


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                    • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                      I think it's time we do something radical and start our 5 best players.

                      To me, that's Lowry, Derozan, Powell, Ibaka, and JV.
                      JVs a plug. Not near the feel for the game of Poeltl and Siakam, not near the post moves, court vision, passing. These guys are the real key. I mean, sure their summer league numbers as feature guys are equal to JVs NBA numbers as a role player, but its THE EYE TEST MAN
                      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                      • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                        I'm not even in love with the idea but given the likelihood that we can't afford to extend Norm, I would look to see if we could package him + JV to the Pelicans for Cousins when the Pelicans are inevitably underperforming and hopefully this is another Ross + pick for Ibaka type situation at the deadline where the fit just wasn't there but works out in our favour.
                        This is something I'd really like to take a look at.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          Yeah, we get that. What I'm wondering is why? If it's to get him more touches and use him more, your suggestion of using him only with bench units makes little sense given what I outlined above, especially compared to my alternative middle ground suggestion of him starting every Q. And that leaves aside the risks of going with a small starting unit (that includes a guy who proved pretty emphatically he wasn't ready to start last year).
                          It makes a lot of sense. The problem is you're looking at it from the angle of JV needing to start, while I'm not.

                          I like JV I just want us to use him in the best way possible. There's way too many high usage guys in the starting 5 in my opinion and two guys who are defensive liabilities in DeMar/JV. Since there is no way DeMar is going to come off the bench, I think doing it with JV makes sense.

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                          • Hope JV takes all this personal and really works on his game. Prove all these critics about his work ethic wrong. Big year for him coming up.

                            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                            Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Tue Jul 18th, 2017, 10:28 PM.
                            @Chr1st1anL

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                            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                              It makes a lot of sense. The problem is you're looking at it from the angle of JV needing to start, while I'm not.

                              I like JV I just want us to use him in the best way possible. There's way too many high usage guys in the starting 5 in my opinion and two guys who are defensive liabilities in DeMar/JV. Since there is no way DeMar is going to come off the bench, I think doing it with JV makes sense.
                              This, nothing wrong with coming off the bench. Playing the majority of your minutes with a PG that would rather look for the big on the roll than score.

                              KL/DD are really good at scoring in PnR that's one of this main strenghts as players. Raptors have benefited alot from that over the last 4 years. Not a fan of asking player to things thier not comfotable with. Do what your good at.

                              Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                              Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Tue Jul 18th, 2017, 11:01 PM.
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                                It makes a lot of sense. The problem is you're looking at it from the angle of JV needing to start, while I'm not.

                                I like JV I just want us to use him in the best way possible. There's way too many high usage guys in the starting 5 in my opinion and two guys who are defensive liabilities in DeMar/JV. Since there is no way DeMar is going to come off the bench, I think doing it with JV makes sense.
                                So, to be clear, you think JV playing with DD-led bench units is a really good idea. Putting the two guys you say need to be kept away from each other together, in lineups without Ibaka at PF to give a defensive boost, or Lowry at PG to be the tide that lifts all boats... They would do better with essentially a rookie PG and a sophomore PF around that pairing...

                                And your concern is that the starting lineup will struggle defensively with JV and DeMar in it, because the starting lineup for the vast majority of the post-all star break stretch struggled defensively? Oh, wait, they had a 104.4 DRTG (would rank as the 6th best team defence in the league). Perhaps it's because other lineups with JV and DD struggled defensively. Let's look at their most used lineups playing together. Hmm, they played in 5 lineups with at least 82 total MP (ie 1 MPG), and the 5 lineups were as follows:

                                KL-DD-DC-PS-JV: 115.5 DRTG (oh my goodness you are right these two can't defend to save their lives)
                                CJ-DD-DC-SI-JV: 104.4 DRTG (covered this above, must be an aberration)
                                KL-DD-DC-PP-JV: 102.2 DRTG (huh, weird, I'm sure the rest will be awful defensively)
                                KL-DD-DC-LN-JV: 98.9 DRTG (well that's clearly wrong)
                                CJ-DD-PT-SI-JV: 105.8 DRTG (hey! That would only be an above average defence!)

                                OK, so, I'm losing the thread here. I'm pretty sure the narrative is supposed to be that DD and JV can't play together defensively so they both shouldn't start. Instead Pascal Siakam should start beside Ibaka yeah? Wait, I thought I saw Siakam pop up somewhere up there. Probably not in the worst defensive unit by a country mile in that list though. He certainly wouldn't be the only difference between the best defensive lineups and the hilariously bad one. Definitely not. That would make the suggestion that DD and JV are the defensive issues with those lineups seem a little misguided, nevermind the thinking that Pascal Siakam is that reliable defender to replace one of them.

                                Yeah, better ignore all that and of course also all the evidence that suggests that JV is used even less in DD-led bench units, and just blindly push a lineup change for no real reason.

                                Gah.

                                Hey, maybe you meant Poeltl and his team leading 6.5 personal fouls per 36 minutes should be starting instead.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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