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  • Raptors were 4.8 points per possession better defensively with JV off the court. Thunder were 3.8 points per possession better defensively with Kanter off the court.

    I don't think JV is much better than Kanter defensively if at all.

    Raptors were 4.0 points per possession better with Poeltl on the court by the way
    Last edited by Shaolin Fantastic; Wed Jul 19, 2017, 02:54 PM.

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    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
      Raptors were 4.8 points per possession better defensively with JV off the court. Thunder were 3.8 points per possession better defensively with Kanter off the court.

      I don't think JV is much better than Kanter defensively if at all.
      You were the one who brought up bench versus starter effects in another thread.

      The effect of that role difference is dramatically understated by most, IMO. I'll have to dig into it at some point this year.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        You were the one who brought up bench versus starter effects in another thread.

        The effect of that role difference is dramatically understated by most, IMO. I'll have to dig into it at some point this year.
        Well then let's put JV in that role

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        • You don't get to have it both ways. You can't say JV shouldn't come off the bench, but then say that Kanter (or other bigs like him) look better because they come off the bench. That's the whole point of bringing him off it lmfao. So in reality you actually agree with and acknowledge that it'd help him and the team you just don't want to do it.

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          • It works for OKC because they have Adams.
            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
              It works for OKC because they have Adams.
              And we have Poeltl, let's see what we've got in the kid. Adams was a full-time starter by his 2nd season at age 21. Poeltl was older than him as a rookie and a higher pick. Let's see it.

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              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                And we have Poeltl, let's see what we've got in the kid. Adams was a full-time starter by his 2nd season at age 21. Poeltl was older than him as a rookie and a higher pick. Let's see it.
                Up to Casey
                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                  Up to Casey
                  I know it's up to Casey. But that doesn't mean we can't say what we'd like to see happen. Otherwise what's the point of even talking here?

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                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    You don't get to have it both ways. You can't say JV shouldn't come off the bench, but then say that Kanter (or other bigs like him) look better because they come off the bench. That's the whole point of bringing him off it lmfao. So in reality you actually agree with and acknowledge that it'd help him and the team you just don't want to do it.
                    What? You are the one suggesting a player like Poeltl will do better in the starting lineup, after judging him entirely on his performance against bench units, while contrasting that performance with JV's against starting lineups.

                    I'm not saying JV wouldn't have better defensive stats with the bench - of course he would. I'm saying the net team impact would not be good, as Poeltl's defensive numbers will certainly be worse playing against starters. It's like, the entire basis of my argument, that the young guys in Poeltl and Siakam should get more time to grow into their game and learn to defend at an NBA level while playing against lesser competition off the bench.

                    I don't give a damn if JV artificially looks better playing off the bench. I'm concerned about the overall team success.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                      I know it's up to Casey. But that doesn't mean we can't say what we'd like to see happen. Otherwise what's the point of even talking here?
                      There's a point of talking about it and discussing it. It's fun but once it's stops being fun what's the point?
                      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • Man, I'm reading all of Dan H's responses and I truly don't even understand why you guys are still arguing with the man lol. He's literally shutting down every point being made with PROOF and y'all just won't accept it ahahahaa. I was down for JV coming off the bench but after the stats Dan posted and his comment about Ibaka breaking down if he had to play center for 82 games I'm completely changed my tune. Also almost every team except Milwaukee and maybe a couple teams still starts big strong somewhat slow centres. They go small as the game goes on, so JV should be starting if that's the case. Pascal is NOT the best defender on this team. Stackhouse is crazy, and idiot can see that. Now I can seeing him BECOMING than in the near future but he isn't the best as of right now.
                        I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                        • GLF wrote: View Post
                          Man, I'm reading all of Dan H's responses and I truly don't even understand why you guys are still arguing with the man lol. He's literally shutting down every point being made with PROOF and y'all just won't accept it ahahahaa. I was down for JV coming off the bench but after the stats Dan posted and his comment about Ibaka breaking down if he had to play center for 82 games I'm completely changed my tune. Also almost every team except Milwaukee and maybe a couple teams still starts big strong somewhat slow centres. They go small as the game goes on, so JV should be starting if that's the case. Pascal is NOT the best defender on this team. Stackhouse is crazy, and idiot can see that. Now I can seeing him BECOMING than in the near future but he isn't the best as of right now.
                          DanH has the patient of a saint.

                          Some of these people are stooping to anti-vaxxer levels of argumentation.

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                          • KHD wrote: View Post
                            DanH has the patient of a saint.

                            Some of these people are stooping to anti-vaxxer levels of argumentation.
                            Legit. I could not go back and forth with people who have no stats or proof to back up anything they say. Yes in theory some things may sound like it would work but when stats prove that it doesn't how are you still arguing? lol.
                            I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                            • as presently constructed, I want JV/ibaka to be our starting bigmen. But if Siakam can provide some floor spacing ability as the season progresses I'd be fine with starting him and Ibaka and moving JV to the bench. I don't buy the idea that serge can't handle playing C fulltime. There would be some tough defensive rebounding games for him occasionally, but guys like horford and thompson have been doing this for years, and they are of comparable size to serge.

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                              • Everything Valanciunas

                                JawsGT wrote: View Post
                                as presently constructed, I want JV/ibaka to be our starting bigmen. But if Siakam can provide some floor spacing ability as the season progresses I'd be fine with starting him and Ibaka and moving JV to the bench. I don't buy the idea that serge can't handle playing C fulltime. There would be some tough defensive rebounding games for him occasionally, but guys like horford and thompson have been doing this for years, and they are of comparable size to serge.
                                Yeh but the problem with starting horford at centre is your team ends up being a really bad rebounding team. He would be far more effective as a power forward next to a guy like JV if you ask me. Thompson is an outlier in that he's an exceptional rebounder for his size and can out hustle most guys, but he can't out rebound JV. Thompson can't defend any guards in space either (basically no bigs can, let alone centres) so what's the point? He can dominate the glass against other weak centres? Sure, but when we come in to town, we aren't losing the rebounding battle if we start JV, so then what are they getting out of starting Thompson? Nothing if you ask me. If JV was on Cleveland he would be starting. If JV was on Boston he would be starting. JV is valuable and you guys are wrong saying we should bench him or dump him. His rebounding is exceptionally valuable and when given opportunity is a good offensive option. He really isn't that much worse a defender than TT either.

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