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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    This has now flipped into a DeMar is holding JV back narrative.
    How so? Has anyone besides you even suggested such a thing?
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      How so? Has anyone besides you even suggested such a thing?
      I mean this whole "keep DeMar away from JV" (not a quote of what you said, quote of the sentiment) train of thought is pretty indicative of that.

      Nothing is ever JV's fault.

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      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
        I mean this whole "keep DeMar away from JV" (not a quote of what you said, quote of the sentiment) train of thought is pretty indicative of that.

        Nothing is ever JV's fault.
        The DeRozan/JV bench unit without Lowry has proven to be a terrible lineup. It's not anybody's fault, but rather the chemistry of the unit as a whole. There are better lineup combinations that help JV, DeRozan and the entire team perform better, which is sort of the point.

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        • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          The DeRozan/JV bench unit without Lowry has proven to be a terrible lineup. It's not anybody's fault, but rather the chemistry of the unit as a whole. There are better lineup combinations that help JV, DeRozan and the entire team perform better, which is sort of the point.
          D.Carroll, D.DeRozan, S.Ibaka, K.Lowry, J.Valanciunas -25.2 last year.

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          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            D.Carroll, D.DeRozan, S.Ibaka, K.Lowry, J.Valanciunas -25.2 last year.
            That's only in 3 games though. The exact same lineup with Patterson subbed for Ibaka was a +26.8 in 23 games in comparison.

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            • tDotted wrote: View Post
              That's only in 3 games though. The exact same lineup with Patterson subbed for Ibaka was a +26.8 in 23 games in comparison.
              the obvious conclusion is that serge ibaka should be a bench player.

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              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                The DeRozan/JV bench unit without Lowry has proven to be a terrible lineup. It's not anybody's fault, but rather the chemistry of the unit as a whole. There are better lineup combinations that help JV, DeRozan and the entire team perform better, which is sort of the point.

                Well they don't run any plays and without Lowry out there Derozan is the only guy who ever gets asked to create.

                My point is it's actually Casey's fault.


                Anyway, i'm hoping that swapping Cory "I used to be smart but then I got coached by Dwane Casey for a year" Joseph for Delon Wright will bring more passing into the non-lowry bench unit.

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                • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  I mean this whole "keep DeMar away from JV" (not a quote of what you said, quote of the sentiment) train of thought is pretty indicative of that.

                  Nothing is ever JV's fault.
                  Who the heck is talking about fault besides you? Most of us are interested in success for the team, and don't give a crap about fault, just combinations that work.

                  The DeMar bench struggles with JV, so we should keep JV away from DeMar to help DeMar. There, is that better? It's not, but maybe it won't trigger your JV rant. The reality is, we're looking at ways to help the team perform better. Who cares whose fault it is that a lineup doesn't work? Just stop using the lineup. My advocating for Scola and Siakam being taken out of the starting lineup wasn't an attack on them - it was simply recognition that there was a lineup that was hurting the team, and that lineup needed to be set aside for the good of the team. Same idea here. JV and DeMar have never worked great together, and when they've been OK, it's been with Lowry there. Why on earth would we trot JV out in a bench lineup with DeMar, a look that seems doomed to fail, just to satisfy your desire to see JV as a bench player?
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • Trade JV or use him as a 6th man, those are the only logical moves for this team in my opinion.

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                    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                      Trade JV or use him as a 6th man, those are the only logical moves for this team in my opinion.

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                      • Or, you know, don't play him with the bench lineup and DeMar.

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                        • Raps are bulding this team around Deebo. JV doesn't compliment his game. This is definitely JV's last year on the team.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Raps are building this team around Deebo. JV doesn't compliment his game. This is definitely JV's last year on the team.
                            You may be right about this, because Masai knows that any team built around DeRozan has a ceiling of the second round of the playoffs, with a conference finals loss as its ultimate best possible outcome.

                            He also knows that JV is the teams second best player by a long shot, after Lowry, who is over 30.

                            Given that JV is easily the team's most valuable trade asset, and that Poeltl and Bebe are sufficient for a second tier team. It does make sense to trade JV for assets to start to build towards the post-Lowry/DeRozan era.

                            This is hard to take for a fan in 2017, but the goal of building a perennial 50 win team that is a second round fixture does make sense from a franchise development and business point of view, and is certainly a high water mark for this franchise, and that's what Lowry/DeRozan/Casey bring.
                            Last edited by Quirk; Fri Sep 8, 2017, 05:02 AM.

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                            • Quirk wrote: View Post
                              You may be right about this, because Masai knows that any team built around DeRozan has a ceiling of the second round of the playoffs, with a conference finals loss as its ultimate best possible outcome.

                              He also knows that JV is the teams second best player by a long shot, after Lowry, who is over 30.

                              Given that JV is easily the team's most valuable trade asset, and that Poeltl and Bebe are sufficient for a second tier team. It does make sense to trade JV for assets to start to build towards the post-Lowry/DeRozan era.

                              This is hard to take for a fan in 2017, but the goal of building a perenial 50 win team that is a second round fixture does make sense from a franchise development and business point of view, and is certainly a high water mark for this franchise, and that's what Lowry/DeRozan/Casey bring.
                              Dallas Mavs East. JV is tied for 4th best player with Norm right now IMO. Also I see secound round as there floor and ECF as thier ceilling.

                              Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                              Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Fri Sep 8, 2017, 05:04 AM.
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                IMO
                                Second round as floor, ECF as ceiling is reasonable, I can agree with that as a fan.

                                Saying Norm is 4th best is also plausible, but unfair to DeRozan, who is clearly behind Lowry, JV and probably Ibaka, so if Norm is 4, then DeRozan is 5th, and that is perhaps a little harsh. We'll see.

                                EDIT: Personally I see DeRozan as 3rd this year, as Ibaka is not likely to regain the levels of his earlier career, but over the next few years, he could easly be overtaken by OG, a bit of a long shot, Wright, almost for sure, perhaps even Norm, but I doubt it.
                                Last edited by Quirk; Fri Sep 8, 2017, 05:14 AM.

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