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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    Yeah he doesn't want to see fadeaways over smaller players, he wants him to be aggressive against them.

    This doesn't mean he's not allowed to shoot the ball. You can also shoot from outside and still be a very intimidating presence on both ends if you work hard at your game.

    Y'all try to act like we're holding back some elite talent. Talent shines through if you put in the work. It's not like JV doesn't get an opportunity when he's started almost every single game he's played in his career. Jokic was the BACKUP CENTER at the start of last season and was still able to seize an opportunity and showcase his abilities to the point that Denver traded the guy who previously started over him (Nurkic). If JV is really some star talent he'd put it on display, he's had more than enough opportunity.
    If this was true than James Johnson would have broken out as a Raptor. He goes to Miami and in one year becomes a core piece. Rudy Gay goes to Sacramento and his TS% jumps by 5.7%. Cory Joseph and DeMarre Carroll come to Toronto and their percentages drop.

    Coaching is important for bringing out the best in players. (side note: Jokic was not the backup to start the season. https://www.basketball-reference.com.../gamelog/2017/ He asked to go to the bench because playing beside Nurkic wasn't working. Eventually they realized that he was better than Nurkic with their starters and sat Nurkic before trading him. Who then broke out with the Blazers because they committed to using him correctly.)

    JV has started but he was given a very narrowly-defined role, he wasn't played to his strengths, and he was/is pulled constantly even when he turns in good performances. He may not be elite but he is capable of more than he's shown and the main culprit has been coaching/development.
    It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

    Comment


    • Scraptor wrote: View Post
      If this was true than James Johnson would have broken out as a Raptor. He goes to Miami and in one year becomes a core piece. Rudy Gay goes to Sacramento and his TS% jumps by 5.7%. Cory Joseph and DeMarre Carroll come to Toronto and their percentages drop.

      Coaching is important for bringing out the best in players. (side note: Jokic was not the backup to start the season. https://www.basketball-reference.com.../gamelog/2017/ He asked to go to the bench because playing beside Nurkic wasn't working. Eventually they realized that he was better than Nurkic with their starters and sat Nurkic before trading him. Who then broke out with the Blazers because they committed to using him correctly.)

      JV has started but he was given a very narrowly-defined role, he wasn't played to his strengths, and he was/is pulled constantly even when he turns in good performances. He may not be elite but he is capable of more than he's shown and the main culprit has been coaching/development.
      I get what your point but to play devils advocate:
      Rudy Gay and James Johnson left for teams that didn't make the playoffs. James Johnson's numbers exploded but so did his usage. JJ would never get his Miami usage on a good team.
      Demarre Carroll obviously struggled in TO but I think that has more to do with him than Casey. If he regains his Atlanta form I'll gladly eat my words.
      You're right about Corey jo.
      And...JV has struggled with his National team coach too. His challenges are not limited to just Dwayne Casey.

      Comment


      • Scraptor wrote: View Post
        If this was true than James Johnson would have broken out as a Raptor. He goes to Miami and in one year becomes a core piece. Rudy Gay goes to Sacramento and his TS% jumps by 5.7%. Cory Joseph and DeMarre Carroll come to Toronto and their percentages drop.

        Coaching is important for bringing out the best in players. (side note: Jokic was not the backup to start the season. https://www.basketball-reference.com.../gamelog/2017/ He asked to go to the bench because playing beside Nurkic wasn't working. Eventually they realized that he was better than Nurkic with their starters and sat Nurkic before trading him. Who then broke out with the Blazers because they committed to using him correctly.)

        JV has started but he was given a very narrowly-defined role, he wasn't played to his strengths, and he was/is pulled constantly even when he turns in good performances. He may not be elite but he is capable of more than he's shown and the main culprit has been coaching/development.
        James Johnson deciding to lose n 30+ pounds has nothing to do with coaching. If it does than Casey should get credit for Lowry's body transformation. Rudy Gay it was obvious it jus wasn't a good fit with Deebo. Carroll is shit and was injured the whole time. Cory improved as a shooter under the raps. The reason JV sit cause he is too much of a liability to close out games. The other team knows they can get a good shot every single time they put him in PnR. When will JV ever be held accountable for his own career?

        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
        @Chr1st1anL

        Comment


        • JV is a stiff. Not bad.....but still, youve seem what he is.... he's a decent center, good enough to start, no place even close to an all star

          no biggie

          Comment


          • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
            I get what your point but to play devils advocate:
            Rudy Gay and James Johnson left for teams that didn't make the playoffs. James Johnson's numbers exploded but so did his usage. JJ would never get his Miami usage on a good team.
            Demarre Carroll obviously struggled in TO but I think that has more to do with him than Casey. If he regains his Atlanta form I'll gladly eat my words.
            You're right about Corey jo.
            And...JV has struggled with his National team coach too. His challenges are not limited to just Dwayne Casey.
            Sacramento didn't have anything close to a playoff roster, especially in the west. Miami was a hair away from making the playoffs. It wasn't just usage for JJ, compared to his seasons in Toronto his TS% was higher, his WS/48 was higher, his assist rate was 61% higher because he was allowed to make plays, and his defense (15th of 79 in DRPM) meant that he placed 8 of 79 power forwards in RPM last season. He was 54th of 72 the season prior in Toronto.

            With a new national coach in Dainius Adomaitis, JV's bounced back 16/12 with 4 double-doubles in 27mpg and second in "efficiency" among all players.
            http://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2017/playerstats

            But it all sort of fits together. We're last in assist rate in the league. We don't make things easier for our guys. The evidence is there quantitatively, and qualitatively you've heard the same refrain from the guys who've left (even before they left).

            Ultimately though we can't say with certainty either way how big the impact coaching was on Jonas until we either have a new coach or he gets shipped somewhere else. And I think he will get shipped, because I am 99% certain he won't opt in to his final year, and by next summer he'll be a de facto expiring with only one guaranteed year left on the books.
            It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

            Comment


            • Hilarious that JV has become our most debated player. Reminds me of a certain someone. How old is he again?

              Comment


              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                James Johnson deciding to lose n 30+ pounds has nothing to do with coaching. If it does than Casey should get credit for Lowry's body transformation. Rudy Gay it was obvious it jus wasn't a good fit with Deebo. Carroll is shit and was injured the whole time. Cory improved as a shooter under the raps. The reason JV sit cause he is too much of a liability to close out games. The other team knows they can get a good shot every single time they put him in PnR. When will JV ever be held accountable for his own career?

                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                Yep just conveniently left that out. He transformed his body and it paid major dividends. Maybe JV should think about doing that.

                It's amazing how every problem with JV is somehow pinned on someone else.

                Comment


                • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  Yep just conveniently left that out. He transformed his body and it paid major dividends. Maybe JV should think about doing that.

                  It's amazing how every problem with JV is somehow pinned on someone else.
                  True, JJ blames himself, but he also gives a ton of credit to the Heat coaching staff, who has repeatedly helped players improve their bodies. Whereas, the Raptor coaching staff is starting to gain a bit of checkered history making guys bulk up (while losing agility & explosiveness) and handling injuries the wrong way.

                  “It has a lot to do with the player, but all the compliments and all the rewards should go to the Forans,” Johnson said.

                  That’s Heat strength and conditioning coach Bill Foran, and his son and assistant strength and conditioning coach Eric Foran. Even though Johnson will be an unrestricted free agent this summer with a big pay raise expected to come his way, he plans on keeping the Forans close by as he works to keep from putting weight back on in the off-season.

                  “I don’t think I’m going to leave Eric Foran or Bill Foran’s side during the summer,” Johnson said with a smile. “I don’t think this is it for me. I still feel I have a long way to go and I want to get there body wise. I think the game will follow.
                  http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.c...success-story/

                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    True, JJ blames himself, but he also gives a ton of credit to the Heat coaching staff, who has repeatedly helped players improve their bodies. Whereas, the Raptor coaching staff is starting to gain a bit of checkered history making guys bulk up (while losing agility & explosiveness) and handling injuries the wrong way.



                    http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.c...success-story/
                    I think its a great story for JJ. However, players like Demar and Lowry have taken it upon themselves to improve their body and they play for the Raptors.

                    I'm trying to get your point here.....so it IS on the player or no? It seems like you're double talking to me.

                    It also suits your narrative to throw a couple shots at the Raptors coaching staff in the process.....

                    I think its better to hold a player accountable for what he puts into his body and how he treats his body. The coaching staff and trainers are there to HELP, but in the end, that doesn't mean that the player is actually following their recommendations correctly.

                    Sometimes players needs to do whats best for them. Sometimes it becomes apparent whats required, but it is up to the player to actually work on their shortcomings.

                    With regards to JV, he needs to work on the following:

                    - work on his mobility
                    - work on increasing his range
                    - work on decision making to become a better passer and to better handle double teams

                    If he can work on these things, he will be a better player, whether its on the Raptors or elsewhere.

                    Comment


                    • special1 wrote: View Post
                      I think its a great story for JJ. However, players like Demar and Lowry have taken it upon themselves to improve their body and they play for the Raptors.

                      I'm trying to get your point here.....so it IS on the player or no? It seems like you're double talking to me.

                      It also suits your narrative to throw a couple shots at the Raptors coaching staff in the process.....

                      I think its better to hold a player accountable for what he puts into his body and how he treats his body. The coaching staff and trainers are there to HELP, but in the end, that doesn't mean that the player is actually following their recommendations correctly.

                      Sometimes players needs to do whats best for them. Sometimes it becomes apparent whats required, but it is up to the player to actually work on their shortcomings.

                      With regards to JV, he needs to work on the following:

                      - work on his mobility
                      - work on increasing his range
                      - work on decision making to become a better passer and to better handle double teams

                      If he can work on these things, he will be a better player, whether its on the Raptors or elsewhere.
                      I think it's both the player and the team, especially in the case of JJ who bulked up to play the PF position, after DeMarre Carroll was brought as the starting SF. Similar situation to Rudy Gay bulking up from SF to PF. So in both cases, you have to take the context of role that the player was asked to do into account.

                      Seen primarily as a power forward who could move to centre in some small lineups, Johnson is behind Luis Scola and Patrick Patterson for the former with Anthony Bennett also in the mix, and Jonas Valanciunas and Bismack Biyombo in the latter.


                      https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...o-survive.html

                      There is a slight change in store for Johnson this year. A year ago, he saw time at both small forward and power forward. This year he will only see time at the four, something Casey feels is best for Johnson and good for the team.

                      “It’s kind of the way the league is going,” Casey said. “And I think for James it’s easier to produce in one position than to try and flip flop him back and forth. We have a need at that position too.”
                      http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/08...o-playing-time

                      Comment


                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        I think it's both the player and the team, especially in the case of JJ who bulked up to play the PF position, after DeMarre Carroll was brought as the starting SF. Similar situation to Rudy Gay bulking up from SF to PF. So in both cases, you have to take the context of role that the player was asked to do into account.



                        https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...o-survive.html



                        http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/08...o-playing-time
                        I agree that they did want JJ to play the 4 but we're assuming that they asked him to bulk up in a way that would make him ineffective. The same goes for Rudy.

                        The Raptors were indeed correct that 6'8/6'9 SFs are now moving to PF more than ever.

                        The fact that they asked those players to get ready for those roles, doesn't mean it was terrible idea.

                        I actually think it was a good idea. However, its up to the players to do it the right way, so that they can still keep their mobility/agility and be effective in their roles.

                        Comment


                        • James Johnson plays PF for Heat as well. So it's not Casey or Raptors thing
                          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                          Comment


                          • special1 wrote: View Post
                            I agree that they did want JJ to play the 4 but we're assuming that they asked him to bulk up in a way that would make him ineffective. The same goes for Rudy.

                            The Raptors were indeed correct that 6'8/6'9 SFs are now moving to PF more than ever.

                            The fact that they asked those players to get ready for those roles, doesn't mean it was terrible idea.

                            I actually think it was a good idea. However, its up to the players to do it the right way, so that they can still keep their mobility/agility and be effective in their roles.
                            If I was running a team, I wouldn't leave off-season training, diet regimen etc... totally up to the players in this day and age of sports science and especially with the kind of money invested in them. Obviously, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe the Raps training staff gave JJ & Rudy Gay very specific instructions on how to prepare their bodies to play PF against bigger, stronger opponents without losing quickness/explosiveness and they didn't follow. Maybe the same thing happened with JV?

                            Regardless, the Heat seem to be taking a proactive role as leaders in this area, and perhaps that's something the Raps coaching staff can learn from. Dion Waiters is yet another success story along similar lines.

                            Comment


                            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                              James Johnson plays PF for Heat as well. So it's not Casey or Raptors thing
                              Sure, but the Heat realized that the advantage of putting JJ at PF was increasing strength without losing quickness. Raps history of increasing strength seems to be bulking guys up quickly, sacrificing mobility.

                              Comment


                              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                                James Johnson plays PF for Heat as well. So it's not Casey or Raptors thing
                                He played backup C like 10% of the time too.

                                Crazy thing is if you go by Bask-Ref #'s, Casey played him at C 20% of the time in 14-15 - a % of much fewer minutes overall than Miami though. Some of that might be because they'd classify Amir at PF or something. Because I don't remember much of that.
                                Two beer away from being two beers away.

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