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  • I mean there's also transition D where Poeltl can keep up and actually get back into plays because of the quicker footspeed where JV can't do that.

    Offensively I like how Poeltl positions himself on rolls - it's not better than JV or anything but I think it's effective. I do feel like the ball sticks a bit less when he touches it compared to JV.

    I like Poeltl a lot more than you do especially defensively, I've never really seen this atrocious 1 on 1 post defense you're talking about.
    That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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      • Maury wrote: View Post
        I can’t believe after watching that game yesterday that people think it’s time to trade JV. That was literally the epitome of every reason we need JV. And tomorrow against GS, we’re gonna miss JV because he would dominate them.
        Rebounding and efficient post scoring is yesterday's news man! There's no use for a 7 footer with talent anymore if he can't play point forward haven't you got the word?
        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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        • This rebounding argument sounds a lot like when people didn't want to trade Ross because he was our best shooter. It all depends what you get back for JV.
          @Chr1st1anL

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          • Maury wrote: View Post
            I can’t believe after watching that game yesterday that people think it’s time to trade JV. That was literally the epitome of every reason we need JV. And tomorrow against GS, we’re gonna miss JV because he would dominate them.
            JV barely played against Golden State last year. Less than 10 points and 7 rebounds per game in under 20 minutes over 2 games.

            The year before he did play and had 9pts and 11 rebounds on 33% shooting in the one game he played against them.

            The year before that he barely played against them. Under 19 minutes per game, under 8 points and 6 rebounds.

            There isn't any evidence that he would dominate or does dominate them.

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            • I don't think anyone is advocating trading JV for nothing or giving him away. But if you can get actual value for him whether that's straight up or in a package like we did with Ross, you have to do it. We have a small-ball center and we also have a guy who we spent a high draft pick on who could succeed him. Powell didn't offer the same attributes as Ross, Ross was a better offensive player and shooter while Powell was better defensively and more consistent from game to game.

              To suggest that JV is a "need" on our team is false. He really, really isn't. Again it's good to have him, but if you can make a move that really strengthens the team in another area while keeping Ibaka and Poeltl who can easily man the 5 position for us over the course of 48 minutes, then yeah, you do that.

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                This rebounding argument sounds a lot like when people didn't want to trade Ross because he was our best shooter. It all depends what you get back for JV.
                So what do you expect to get back in a JV trade that would make the whole thing worthwhile?

                Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                I don't think anyone is advocating trading JV for nothing or giving him away. But if you can get actual value for him whether that's straight up or in a package like we did with Ross, you have to do it. We have a small-ball center and we also have a guy who we spent a high draft pick on who could succeed him. Powell didn't offer the same attributes as Ross, Ross was a better offensive player and shooter while Powell was better defensively and more consistent from game to game.

                To suggest that JV is a "need" on our team is false. He really, really isn't.
                Again it's good to have him, but if you can make a move that really strengthens the team in another area while keeping Ibaka and Poeltl who can easily man the 5 position for us over the course of 48 minutes, then yeah, you do that.
                Watch the Spurs game from last night. Really eye-opening stuff.

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                • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  JV barely played against Golden State last year. Less than 10 points and 7 rebounds per game in under 20 minutes over 2 games.

                  The year before he did play and had 9pts and 11 rebounds on 33% shooting in the one game he played against them.

                  The year before that he barely played against them. Under 19 minutes per game, under 8 points and 6 rebounds.

                  There isn't any evidence that he would dominate or does dominate them.
                  Lol, ok lets lay out stats in a way that's skewed to help make a point.

                  Last year he played 40 minutes across 2 games, and had 19 pts and 13 rebs against GSW. He had 5 OREBs, and only had 11 FGAs. That's pretty damn productive and barely involved. They were fairly close games.

                  The year before he did have 9 and 11 on a bad shooting night in 31 minutes in one game. He also had 5 OREBs that night. Also ended up being a somewhat close game.

                  The year before he had 15 and 12 in around 38 minutes total across 2 games. He had just 9 FGAs, had 4 OREBs and got 8 FTAs in those 38 minutes. Both massive blowouts where we never had a chance.

                  So he had some pretty productive time on the court in most of his minutes against GSW. And the game he played the most, where he also had a bad FG%, was the closest loss of the games he appeared in against them. In none of the games did he get the combination of touches and minutes to have a chance to dominate them. But he doesn't have to be dominant, just effective enough to become an issue for GSW.

                  Now, I don't think forcefeeding JV is the answer to our problems against GSW. They probably beat us every time unless we get lucky some night regardless. But there's hardly enough evidence to suggest we can't win playing JV against them since we barely try it, and we lose trying to beat them at their game anyway (ie there's not enough evidence to suggest benching him is the solution). And we do that against worse small ball teams too. I mean, wouldn't it be helpful if in trying to box out JV, we are able to draw some cheap fouls on guys like Durant and Green? Wouldn't it hurt GSW's chances if they are forced to play Pachulia more than they'd like? And I think if they also commit to this new style of play they're trying this year it really could help make JV more effective in faster games as well.

                  Too bad JV probably won't play tomorrow anyway, and if he does he'll be hobbled in an uptempo game so it would probably be a disaster.

                  **And yeah, whether JV plays or not, and whether we use our bigs or go small, I think mostly luck is the only thing getting us a win against GSW. And unless someone like Anthony Davis becomes available, I don't think there's an obvious move to help our chances there. Paul George was the other superstar I was hoping to go after (where JV probably wouldn't be a useful piece since they are high on Turner), but Larry Legend was so old school about trading him in conference, he shipped him out West for like a third of his value.
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Oct 25, 2017, 03:23 AM.

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                  • tDotted wrote: View Post
                    So what do you expect to get back in a JV trade that would make the whole thing worthwhile?



                    Watch the Spurs game from last night. Really eye-opening stuff.
                    Depends on the reason why your trading him. If your looking to to save money. I would do that Chandler trade like Zach Lowe mention. Chandler who is averaging 10 rebounds in 25 mins per game so far and shooting .632 from the field. Who just had back to back 14 rebound games. One of those games came against the clippers front court. Clippers probably have the biggest front court with GALLO/GRIFFIN/DJ. Chandler got 14 rebounds in 24 mins. On Lowe's most recent podcast he mentions how Chandler would be so much better on a good team with good guard play. Mention that he is an elite role player when surrounded with better players. I agree with that, same thing that happen to Ibaka when he got here. Cheaper and better defensively. Yak get to learn from a former defensive player of the year. With how bad Lowry is looking defensively so far rap are going need more defensive help.

                    If your looking to improve the talent than I would hope for Boogie to become available. Also that JV's value increases enough to make the Pels consider it.
                    Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Wed Oct 25, 2017, 03:20 AM.
                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      This rebounding argument sounds a lot like when people didn't want to trade Ross because he was our best shooter. It all depends what you get back for JV.
                      This is true.

                      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      Depends on the reason why your trading him. If your looking to to save money. I would do that Chandler trade like Zach Lowe mention. Chandler who is averaging 10 rebounds in 25 mins per game so far and shooting .632 from the field. Who just had back to back 14 rebound games. One of those games came against the clippers front court. Clippers probably have the biggest front court with GALLO/GRIFFIN/DJ. Chandler got 14 rebounds in 24 mins. On Lowe's most recent podcast he mentions how Chandler would be so much better on a good team with good guard play. Mention that he is an elite role player when surrounded with better players. I agree with that, same thing that happen to Ibaka when he got here. Cheaper and better defensively. Yak get to learn from a former defensive player of the year.

                      If your looking to improve the talent than I would hope for Boogie to become available. Also that JV's value increases enough to make the Pels consider it.
                      Chandler doesn't save us much and has the same number of guaranteed years as Jonas. It is a bad trade unless you're getting a young forward too, like Chriss (unlikely) or Bender (a little less unlikely).

                      We are asset-poor and if we are trading JV we need to get talent back. That's why Masai didn't dump him and instead offloaded Carroll, who had even less trade value.

                      I think our main Hail Mary this season is to hope the Pelicans struggle and we can build up the kids enough to pair with JV for Boogie. Because if we go into the playoffs with the current roster, and fail to make progress, I think you have to start considering what kind of value can get for Lowry/DeMar/Ibaka with 2 years left on their contracts, because one more year after that and it'll be even harder to get a return.

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                      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                        Depends on the reason why your trading him. If your looking to to save money. I would do that Chandler trade like Zach Lowe mention. Chandler who is averaging 10 rebounds in 25 mins per game so far and shooting .632 from the field. Who just had back to back 14 rebound games. One of those games came against the clippers front court. Clippers probably have the biggest front court with GALLO/GRIFFIN/DJ. Chandler got 14 rebounds in 24 mins. On Lowe's most recent podcast he mentions how Chandler would be so much better on a good team with good guard play. Mention that he is an elite role player when surrounded with better players. I agree with that, same thing that happen to Ibaka when he got here. Cheaper and better defensively. Yak get to learn from a former defensive player of the year. With how bad Lowry is looking defensively so far rap are going need more defensive help.

                        If your looking to improve the talent than I would hope for Boogie to become available. Also that JV's value increases enough to make the Pels consider it.
                        Chandler isn't really a discount at all if you look at their salaries. JV makes 2-3 mill more on average per year and that isn't much.
                        Anyway, he's old man. I know you've wanted him forever but there's just no real reason to go after him imo.

                        As for Boogie; would he buy into a ball movement offense? A seriously doubt that he would.

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                        • tDotted wrote: View Post
                          As for Boogie; would he buy into a ball movement offense? A seriously doubt that he would.
                          Boogie is both a willing and a good passer. He had the third best assist percentage for players 6'10" and above last year, behind Jokic and Giannis, and ahead of Marc Gasol. http://bkref.com/tiny/frF3q

                          6th-best among all players 6'7" and above, and considerably better than DeMar's mark, which ranked him 13th. http://bkref.com/tiny/rMpPM

                          He's an absolute perfect fit next to Ibaka and exactly what we need to elevate us to contender status. I just don't know how we can get him here unless OG balls out, given that Powell is not able to be traded.
                          Last edited by Scraptor; Wed Oct 25, 2017, 03:44 AM.

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                          • tDotted wrote: View Post
                            Chandler isn't really a discount at all if you look at their salaries. JV makes 2-3 mill more on average per year and that isn't much.
                            Anyway, he's old man. I know you've wanted him forever but there's just no real reason to go after him imo.

                            As for Boogie; would he buy into a ball movement offense? A seriously doubt that he would.
                            2 games VS RAPs last year 31.0 mins .714 FG, 11.0 REBS, 1.5 AST, 0.5 BLK, 1.5 STL, 11.5 PPG

                            Him and JV pretty much cancelled each other out in their match ups. Chandler contract is also shorter

                            Chandler dunking all over the raps last year. Looks good for an old guy. If Lowe thinks he can still play than so do I. I really value Zach's opinion


                            In regards to Boogie people said that Deebo wouldn't be able to play in a pass first offence. Also Boogie is averaging 5 assist per game so far this year. Underrated passer.
                            Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Wed Oct 25, 2017, 04:22 AM.
                            @Chr1st1anL

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                            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                              Chandler dunking all over the raps last year. Looks good for an old guy. If Lowe thinks he can still play than so do I.
                              If I remember correctly Lowe only suggested him because there weren't many other options, not because he's actually good value.

                              Trade JV for Chandler and you might as well give up on the next three years of title contention. JV is the only movable salary we can exchange for star talent to add to Kyle/DeMar/Ibaka. That's how limited our flexibility is now.

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                              • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                                If I remember correctly Lowe only suggested him because there weren't many other options, not because he's actually good value.

                                Trade JV for Chandler and you might as well give up on the next three years of title contention. JV is the only movable salary we can exchange for star talent to add to Kyle/DeMar/Ibaka. That's how limited our flexibility is now.
                                You should listen to his most recent podcast. Says Chandler could be really good on a good team with good guard play. I just dont think Jv's value can be raised enough to get another star in here. I hope so though. I just think MLSE is fine with going to the ECF and losing to LBJ. Not Masai but MLSE.
                                Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Wed Oct 25, 2017, 04:34 AM.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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