Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything Valanciunas

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    Or you give Poeltl starters minutes, play Ibaka situationally as a 5 and Bebe gets spot minutes. Find a great wing player in a JV trade potentially. Still gives you a great 5 rotation for 48 minutes while strengthening other areas. IF we can find that kind of deal for JV it makes sense to pull the trigger.
    What do you consider starters' minutes for a C? Sure, if Poeltl plays 36 minutes you could get close to 48 minutes. But BeBe playing backup C is a significant downgrade IMO from Poeltl. Situational minutes for Ibaka should mean there are games where he's not used there at all, and even when he is, ideally it would be for like 6-8 minutes, max.

    Like I said - I don't think there is an upgrade on Powell or Miles that would be available for JV, let alone a real star on the wing, so what are we even talking about here?

    The reality is, JV will be dealt to save the team money if he is dealt at all. His trade value is not what it needs to be to bring back a like player at a different position - wings are high value right now, bigs are in a depressed market.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

    Comment


    • DanH wrote: View Post
      What do you consider starters' minutes for a C? Sure, if Poeltl plays 36 minutes you could get close to 48 minutes. But BeBe playing backup C is a significant downgrade IMO from Poeltl. Situational minutes for Ibaka should mean there are games where he's not used there at all, and even when he is, ideally it would be for like 6-8 minutes, max.

      Like I said - I don't think there is an upgrade on Powell or Miles that would be available for JV, let alone a real star on the wing, so what are we even talking about here?

      The reality is, JV will be dealt to save the team money if he is dealt at all. His trade value is not what it needs to be to bring back a like player at a different position - wings are high value right now, bigs are in a depressed market.
      My position has always been that if we can't find a good deal for JV then we should keep him so idk what you're arguing here really.

      Comment


      • And starters minutes would be about 25-28 a game, which is what JV has gotten his whole career here not 36 lol.

        Comment


        • DanH wrote: View Post
          The reality is, JV will be dealt to save the team money if he is dealt at all. His trade value is not what it needs to be to bring back a like player at a different position - wings are high value right now, bigs are in a depressed market.
          I disagree with this.

          Masai on JV rumours-"We believe in JV's talent. I want everyone to know that. We're very comfortable w/JV. We're not going to give him away"
          That tells me we're not looking to dump him for space (which would be a horrible use of an asset), rather we are willing to trade but only for a deal that helps us. That's a direct quote from Masai so your "reality" is dead wrong.

          Comment


          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            I disagree with this.



            That tells me we're not looking to dump him for space (which would be a horrible use of an asset), rather we are willing to trade but only for a deal that helps us. That's a direct quote from Masai so your "reality" is dead wrong.
            Direct quote from Masai, who we cannot trust to mean what he says. He could've very easily said that to (1) maintain JV's confidence, and (2) prevent low-ball offers.
            Last edited by Nilanka; Fri Oct 27th, 2017, 10:30 AM.

            Comment


            • I really believe that Masai was looking for a lottery pick and he might still be looking for one. In the next 3 years we'll be drafting in the high 20's (well not this year).

              I don't really see a trade out there that makes this team better or delivers us a lottery pick (or at least a pick in the 15-18 range).

              As for wings that can shoot.. the only guy I can think of is Wes Matthews. Makes about as much as JV (a little more actually). He was on Masai's radar the year we took Carroll in free agency. And Dallas needs a C (Noel is getting only 19 mpg and will be a UFA)... They are 30th in rebounding differentials.. although small sample size.

              But I don't like Wes Matthews very much, and he'd just take minutes away from Powell. What other teams out there could use a C like JV more than Toronto would? If we could swap JV for Dallas' first rounder that would be sweet (would have to take some asset back (like a Seth Curry) since Dallas is only under the cap by about $12.5M).. but Dallas is tanking/rebuilding and I doubt they would give up their pick for anyone.

              Comment


              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                I disagree with this.



                That tells me we're not looking to dump him for space (which would be a horrible use of an asset), rather we are willing to trade but only for a deal that helps us. That's a direct quote from Masai so your "reality" is dead wrong.
                Masai likely wanted picks/prospects and cap relief. No way he was trading JV to take on a similar salary.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                Comment


                • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  And starters minutes would be about 25-28 a game, which is what JV has gotten his whole career here not 36 lol.
                  Yeah, I know, that was my point. If Poeltl is only playing 25-28 minutes, that's 20 minutes of either Ibaka or BeBe, and, uh, no thanks to that. The 36 was to be as generous as possible to your suggestion that Ibaka play only situational C minutes and BeBe only "spot" minutes. I should not be so generous in the future.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

                  Comment


                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    My position has always been that if we can't find a good deal for JV then we should keep him so idk what you're arguing here really.
                    "Good deal" is a subjective term that varies wildly. Besides getting a star player in return, can you present an example of a good trade return for JV?

                    And it's been well established that the Raps looked and know that they CAN'T get a good deal for JV. So any suggestions of trading him now definitely come with the implication that trading him for a bad return is acceptable.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

                    Comment


                    • I've said the deals that have been mentioned (Chandler, Mirotic, Vucevic) I have zero interest in. My position is we should continue to shop JV for an actually good deal. If we can't find one, keep him. It's not that complicated.

                      Unless you think we shouldn't shop him at all, which I think IS your position.

                      Let's say hypothetically the Bucks traded Monroe and a pick for Bledsoe and now needed a center. Would you move JV for Middleton if that was available?
                      Last edited by Shaolin Fantastic; Fri Oct 27th, 2017, 11:52 AM.

                      Comment


                      • OKC moved Kanter as the main piece in a Melo deal and an overpaid Oladipo as the main piece for PG13. Deals can and will present themselves. Not saying that's the type of deal we will get, but when you have a young center like Poeltl who can clearly handle himself and will only get better you should be looking at what you can get for Valanciunas. If what you can get doesn't improve the team, keep him, if it does then we need to look at making a move.

                        Poeltl is capable of starting, was a high pick and is clearly NBA ready. He's on cheap money and capable of being a double double guy in starters minutes. JV was starting in his 1st year in the league and then 2nd year for a team playing at a 50 win pace post Gay-trade. So don't tell me Poeltl can't start next to a much better overall starting unit.

                        Comment


                        • It's not about whether Poeltl can or can't start. It's about whether a) he will play better off the bench or starting and b) whether it is better to have actual centre depth or not. I expect he would struggle to some degree as a full time starter, though it is hard to say for sure. I am extremely confident that for 15-20 minutes or so a game, we'd be taking a significant step back in quality of play from the centre spot, if we moved JV and started Poeltl bringing BeBe off the bench or forcing small ball looks.

                          OKC moved Sabonis as the main piece in the George deal, a recent lotto pick (and basically a one-to-one comparison for Poeltl). And, sure, there is always the Knicks, but if that's the argument for a player's trade value, then they are incredibly unlikely to net a good return.

                          Also, Poeltl is capable of being a double double guy in starters' minutes? I take it this is entirely based on the extremely small sample of the 4 games played so far this year, right?
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

                          Comment


                          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                            The idea of trading JV is that his salary and status as a player make him the only viable way to improve our team via trade (as the main piece in a package deal). Obviously it's hard to see what's out there, but we should be looking and aggressively pursuing moves that can upgrade other parts of our roster with him going the other way. It's not about hating JV or whatever or thinking he's not good. It's the fact that we have Poeltl, who looks better defensively already and has potential on the offensive end at minimum as a good finisher around the rim and offensive rebounder similar to Steven Adams in OKC.

                            Other than DeRozan, JV is the best trade chip and unlike DeMar we actually have a suitable replacement for him (if anyone thinks Powell can step in and start giving us 25-5-5 right now then ok, but he clearly can't) and he's not our #1, #2 or arguably not even #3 option.

                            We're talking about the best use of assets here. We have several options at the center position and splitting the time there between Poeltl and some Ibaka minutes with a bit of Bebe sprinkled in at times would be very effective. Obviously, if you can't find a good deal for JV, you keep him and get the most out of his production. But if you can, he needs to go because there are other areas that need strengthening (particularly our outside shooting and the 3 position) more urgently.

                            That's a rational position to have on JV. I'm not out here talking about trading him for sidegrades or downgrades at the same position like Chandler or Robin Lopez or trading him for some mediocre player like Mirotic. I'm talking about using him to make a move that could really strengthen this team.
                            100% agree and it's been my stance since day 1. I am all for trading JV in a package for a real nice player coming back. But see 0 need to trade him just to trade him or for cap relief. He's still a valuable asset despite what the new nba says. He's our best trade chip currently forsure though and would be all for a GOOD move.
                            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                            Comment


                            • Answer the question before you ask another one.

                              Comment


                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                                100% agree and it's been my stance since day 1. I am all for trading JV in a package for a real nice player coming back. But see 0 need to trade him just to trade him or for cap relief. He's still a valuable asset despite what the new nba says. He's our best trade chip currently forsure though and would be all for a GOOD move.
                                That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying move him at all costs. I'm saying he's our best way to make this team better without downgrading significantly if at all.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X