Shaolin Fantastic wrote:
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Everything Valanciunas
Collapse
X
-
-
Boston made the ECF with essentially a team of league average players, now they have a significantly above average player in Hayward. Whereas we've exchange a difference maker in Tucker, for C.J. Miles, an average player. Not saying we should be scared, but I would say we've lost ground. Carroll and Joseph are easily replaced with Powell and Wright.
We're definitely betting on internal growth.
Comment
-
Quirk wrote: View PostBoston made the ECF with essentially a team of league average players, now they have a significantly above average player in Hayward. Whereas we've exchange a difference maker in Tucker, for C.J. Miles, an average player. Not saying we should be scared, but I would say we've lost ground. Carroll and Joseph are easily replaced with Powell and Wright.
We're definitely betting on internal growth.
Nevermind that the pre-Tucker/Ibaka Raptors would have smacked the Celts around in the playoffs if Pat, DD and Lowry were healthy.
Comment
-
Quirk wrote: View PostBoston made the ECF with essentially a team of league average players, now they have a significantly above average player in Hayward. Whereas we've exchange a difference maker in Tucker, for C.J. Miles, an average player. Not saying we should be scared, but I would say we've lost ground. Carroll and Joseph are easily replaced with Powell and Wright.
We're definitely betting on internal growth.
I like the Raptors too, but Boston improved their squad this offseason, we at BEST stood pat and I'd argue got worse losing Tucker and 2Pat with no replacements.
The same people arguing that Poeltl can't start because he "isn't ready" think that our 2nd and 3rd year guys off the bench can make the same contributions as established, experienced players like Tucker and 2Pat. Maybe they can, I'm not saying they can't, but it's very interesting how people just flip-flop on either side of this narrative as they see fit.
If we added Gordon Hayward this summer we'd be saying that our squad got MUCH MUCH better, even if we lost Tucker and 2Pat. So stop denying it for Boston.
Comment
-
Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View PostThis (although I don't agree Boston had average players, Isaiah Thomas is a star player, Horford is borderline all-star and Crowder/Bradley are above average starters). I don't know why people here are so biased in favor or the Raptors that they can't see this.
I like the Raptors too, but Boston improved their squad this offseason, we at BEST stood pat and I'd argue got worse losing Tucker and 2Pat with no replacements.
The same people arguing that Poeltl can't start because he "isn't ready" think that our 2nd and 3rd year guys off the bench can make the same contributions as established, experienced players like Tucker and 2Pat. Maybe they can, I'm not saying they can't, but it's very interesting how people just flip-flop on either side of this narrative as they see fit.
If we added Gordon Hayward this summer we'd be saying that our squad got MUCH MUCH better, even if we lost Tucker and 2Pat. So stop denying it for Boston.
Boston won 53 games last year. If they got much, much better, how many more games should they expect to win? 55+? If the over-under is set at 55.5 wins for them, are you taking the over or the under? I'm taking the under, no question, as I do not think they got much, much better. They may have gotten somewhat better - but not better enough to pick them against the Raptors in a series.
Comment
-
DanH wrote: View PostWho is flip-flopping? I've been consistent in my stance that Poeltl and Siakam should be perfectly capable of holding their own against bench opposition, specifically in lineups designed to have the bench guys survive while DeRozan or Lowry take advantage of lesser competition, and at the same time have better, more ready players ahead of them on the depth chart who should start over them. Is there any inconsistency at all there?
Boston won 53 games last year. If they got much, much better, how many more games should they expect to win? 55+? If the over-under is set at 55.5 wins for them, are you taking the over or the under? I'm taking the under, no question, as I do not think they got much, much better. They may have gotten somewhat better - but not better enough to pick them against the Raptors in a series.
Raptors were slightly better than Boston last year on paper, the expected W-L and point/PPP differential bears that out. However they have improved while we have taken a step back this summer, so I don't understand the certainty of you and others that we'd beat them in a series. Even last year I wouldn't have been confident given our tendency to drastically under-perform in the playoffs the past 4 years.
Comment
-
Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View PostThis (although I don't agree Boston had average players, Isaiah Thomas is a star player, Horford is borderline all-star and Crowder/Bradley are above average starters). I don't know why people here are so biased in favor or the Raptors that they can't see this.
I like the Raptors too, but Boston improved their squad this offseason, we at BEST stood pat and I'd argue got worse losing Tucker and 2Pat with no replacements.
The same people arguing that Poeltl can't start because he "isn't ready" think that our 2nd and 3rd year guys off the bench can make the same contributions as established, experienced players like Tucker and 2Pat. Maybe they can, I'm not saying they can't, but it's very interesting how people just flip-flop on either side of this narrative as they see fit.
If we added Gordon Hayward this summer we'd be saying that our squad got MUCH MUCH better, even if we lost Tucker and 2Pat. So stop denying it for Boston.
Comment
-
DanH wrote: View PostSo, IT and Avery Bradley are average players, but PJ Tucker is not?
Nevermind that the pre-Tucker/Ibaka Raptors would have smacked the Celts around in the playoffs if Pat, DD and Lowry were healthy.
Bradley is slightly above average, IT, like Tucker is significantly above average, a difference maker, but not an elite player by any means. Hayward is much more productive than either. Neither Thomas or Bradley should be a started on an elite team. What Boston accomplished with a team of essentially league average players is amazing.
i.e., here is how WP ranks them:
boxscore geeks
(please don't make this a thread about WP itself, it's just one measure)
Comment
-
Quirk wrote: View PostSo I wrote a team of "essentially a team of league average players," not "every player on the team is exactly league average"
Bradley is slightly above average, IT, like Tucker is significantly above average, a difference maker, but not an elite player by any means. Hayward is much more productive than either. Neither Thomas or Bradley should be a started on an elite team. What Boston accomplished with a team of essentially league average players is amazing.
i.e., here is how WP ranks them:
boxscore geeks
(please don't make this a thread about WP itself, it's just one measure)
Thomas absolutely comes with a load of drawbacks, and he's a big reason why BOS is as limited as they are, but the value he provides is nowhere remotely close to average.
Besides (the dramatically flawed) WP, is there a single measure that shows Hayward is significantly better than Thomas, for example? He's like a +3 in RPM to IT's +2; that's about it. That's not some different tier.
Comment
-
DanH wrote: View PostSo, IT and Avery Bradley are average players, but PJ Tucker is not?
Nevermind that the pre-Tucker/Ibaka Raptors would have smacked the Celts around in the playoffs if Pat, DD and Lowry were healthy, and DD and Lowry didn't play like they normally do in the playoffs."Stop eating your sushi."
"I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
"I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
- Jack Armstrong
Comment
-
DanH wrote: View Postis there a single measure that shows Hayward is significantly better than Thomas, for example? He's like a +3 in RPM to IT's +2; that's about it. That's not some different tier.
While we have traded a difference maker in Tucker, a well above average player, for a league average player in CJ Mills.
This would mean that the only thing we are counting on to not lose ground to Boston is internal growth. Which exactly what my comment said.
Comment
Comment